Zurich 5000m thread.

everyone freaked out when they ran those times. You may think dropping 10-15 to go 13-12:55 is no big deal, but when they ran those times it was not on anyones mind.

o.O wrote:

just mover wrote:

Rupp passes Goucher on the U.S. list.

12:54.12 Bernard Lagat (Nike) 06/04/10

12:55.53 Chris Solinsky (Oregon TC) 08/06/10

12:56.27 Dathan Ritzenhein (Nike) 08/28/09

12:58.21 Bob Kennedy (Nike) 08/14/96

12:58.56 Matt Tegenkamp (Nike) 09/04/09

13:01.15 Sydney Maree (Puma) 07/27/85

13:07.35 Galen Rupp (Oregon TC) 08/19/10

13:10.00 Adam Goucher (Nike) 07/22/06

13:10.86 Alan Webb (Nike) 09/04/05

13:11.77 Meb Keflezighi (Nike) 08/05/00

Goucher and Webb don't have PRs reflective of their talents though, I'm sure both of them could go 10-15 seconds faster if their situations played out differently.

o.O wrote:

Goucher and Webb don't have PRs reflective of their talents though, I'm sure both of them could go 10-15 seconds faster if their situations played out differently.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh what a world it would be!

o.O wrote:

Goucher and Webb don't have PRs reflective of their talents though, I'm sure both of them could go 10-15 seconds faster if their situations played out differently.

No one's career goes perfectly. Injury resistance is part of the game.

If one guy is a 4:00 high school miler but is fragile, and another guy is a 4:15 high school miler but can train every day for years with no problems, how much does that early talent really matter? If they meet up at the Olympic Trials in 8 years it only matters how fast they actually run, not how fast one of them might have run given a different combination of luck, biomechanics, coaching, etc. You only get credit for the times you put down.

Why respond to a post that reeks of troll bait.

just mover wrote:

o.O wrote:

Goucher and Webb don't have PRs reflective of their talents though, I'm sure both of them could go 10-15 seconds faster if their situations played out differently.

No one's career goes perfectly. Injury resistance is part of the game.

If one guy is a 4:00 high school miler but is fragile, and another guy is a 4:15 high school miler but can train every day for years with no problems, how much does that early talent really matter? If they meet up at the Olympic Trials in 8 years it only matters how fast they actually run, not how fast one of them might have run given a different combination of luck, biomechanics, coaching, etc. You only get credit for the times you put down.

Wallet Inspector wrote:

Why respond to a post that reeks of troll bait.

just mover wrote:

No one's career goes perfectly. Injury resistance is part of the game.

If one guy is a 4:00 high school miler but is fragile, and another guy is a 4:15 high school miler but can train every day for years with no problems, how much does that early talent really matter? If they meet up at the Olympic Trials in 8 years it only matters how fast they actually run, not how fast one of them might have run given a different combination of luck, biomechanics, coaching, etc. You only get credit for the times you put down.

It may not be troll bait, out of all the top elites, whos careers spent more time way off track then Webbs and Gouchers? Nearly all of Gouchers prime was spent injured and Webb simply has raced very few 5000s as of yet. He's a young 1500 specialist who wasted the last couple year. He has several years to blast 5000 if he chooses to. If a 5000 specialist with great training partners and constant health can go from 13:12 to 12:56 in a single race, think what may have happened for Goucher and Webb if they had that kind of health and 5000 focus for 4 years.

For frame of reference on Goucher and Webb:

7:34.96 Adam Goucher (Fila) 07/20/01

7:35.08+ Alan Webb (Nike) 06/04/05

7:35.32+ Dathan Ritzenhein (Nike) 06/10/07

7:35.84 Doug Padilla (Athletics West) 07/09/83

7:36.69 Steve Scott (Sub 4) 08/31/81

7:36.90 Chris Solinsky (Wisconsin) 07/15/07

Get Real Real wrote:

Solinsky blew it by not going after the lead when he knew they were behind USA record pace...

Rupp needs to retire for not setting a bigger PR.

(sarcasm)

Popwarandrun1 wrote:

Solinsky...not only can he run fast but he knows how to race.

Huh, what part of the race did he race exactly.

Everytime he accidently moved up, he slowed down and moved back. Bekele went to the front and he won.

The old american strategy of not taking the lead until the race is over doesn't work.

malmo wrote:

Get Real Real wrote:

Great run by Mo.

Yes, logical next step for Rupp.

And YES, CS needs to work on that final 800. I think when you guys watch a replay of the race, he makes a few mistakes in the last 1000k, getting boxed, bumped, stalled, instead of protecting his running space/lane. If that last 1k goes perfect and smooth for him, he gets the AR.

To be so close and not get it?

By his own quote the time is a failure and points him to the 10.

He WANTED to run 12:50

The opinion of a clown.

The retort of a sour pussy.

--Do you even read or watch athletes pre-race interviews?

Did you see the race?

Did you see others note that Solinsky got boxed in?

He also got bumped and then finally pushed back to defend his space.

If you saw the race did you watch Solinsky the WHOLE time?

Someone Solinksy's size should not be getting bumped around by tiny runners. The first bump he should let them know who means business.

Mistakes and lack of aggression cost him the AR and at least 2nd place today.

He did not seem balls to the wall spent at the end of the race.

And I bet you he regrets not go after a bit more and getting the record when so close.

Get Real Real wrote:

--Do you even read or watch athletes pre-race interviews?

Did you see the race?

Did you see others note that Solinsky got boxed in?

He also got bumped and then finally pushed back to defend his space.

If you saw the race did you watch Solinsky the WHOLE time?

Someone Solinksy's size should not be getting bumped around by tiny runners. The first bump he should let them know who means business.

Mistakes and lack of aggression cost him the AR and at least 2nd place today.

He did not seem balls to the wall spent at the end of the race.

And I bet you he regrets not go after a bit more and getting the record when so close.

I pretty much agree with you here, but it could have been a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing and it aint too easy to think a lot about the pros and cons while racing.

Most likely had he taken the lead he would have been burned on the last lap and maybe rigged up because of it. Perhaps run slower.

Personally watching it I thought he should take over and go, not so much for the AR purpose but for trying to win or place as high as possible. He was clearly ready for a faste pace with about 600-800 to go and held back. Who knows, he may have made it a 2 man race. Being a summer of no championship, it might have been a good idea to experiment with that.

But that said, he knew he was close to the AR and perhaps just hoped the pace would maintain and he'd come up with enough on the last lap to nab it and the win.

We have no idea if he even heard his splits in the last 800. Many times in the zone, you don't. It was still a phenomenal race, but hopefully the next time in similar circumstances he does go. It's worth a shot.

Get Real Real wrote:

The retort of a sour pussy.

--Do you even read or watch athletes pre-race interviews?

Did you see the race?

Did you see others note that Solinsky got boxed in?

He also got bumped and then finally pushed back to defend his space.

If you saw the race did you watch Solinsky the WHOLE time?

Someone Solinksy's size should not be getting bumped around by tiny runners. The first bump he should let them know who means business.

Mistakes and lack of aggression cost him the AR and at least 2nd place today.

He did not seem balls to the wall spent at the end of the race.

And I bet you he regrets not go after a bit more and getting the record when so close.

We get it. If he won the race by 5 seconds you would've said something like, "He still won't medal in the Olympics and will never get a WR. Also, he stumbled on lap 7 costing him a half a second."

You'll be negative no matter what. Elite runners don't look balls to the wall spent at the end of races. Just because they don't collapse and writhe around on the ground doesn't mean they didn't give it 100%.

Another Crappy Race wrote:

Popwarandrun1 wrote:

Solinsky...not only can he run fast but he knows how to race.

Huh, what part of the race did he race exactly.

Everytime he accidently moved up, he slowed down and moved back. Bekele went to the front and he won.

The old american strategy of not taking the lead until the race is over doesn't work.

Yeah, and I am a "clown," for pointing out how that worked out for Solinsky.

I watched Solinsky the whole way (of what was shown), focusing on his form, position of his shoulders and legs, efficient moving forward in space or no, moves, specifically paying attention to if he would get boxed, jostled, or any other thing that could result in the loss of time that might be critical in getting the AR.

It's not like with 3 laps to go, or 1k to go CS and Rupp did not know what pace they were on.

CS might have assumed if he stayed with the leaders he'd get pulled to the AR; but really he needed to hear the splits and dictate his pace to insure either the record, or GFTW... He did not have that go for it attitude that he had in breaking 27:00

It may not seem like a difference to old prunes like Malmo, it might seem a nuance or splitting hairs to some, but at that pace in that short of a race...it killed what could well have been an AR run, and CS taking down two major AR's in one year.

Malmo's just happy to have a white guy in the top 5, lol. Gives him a woody.

I wanted to see the guy take down Record # 2 this year. Time's running out!

...At that pace, it has to be the little nuances that make it or break it. Tough quibble, but true.

CS will perhaps rewatch the race himself and see where he could have gained the nuggets of time that would have given him the AR.

Would have been sweet bonus money for him to get another AR.

Get Real Real wrote:

malmo wrote:

The opinion of a clown.

The retort of a sour pussy.

--Do you even read or watch athletes pre-race interviews?

Did you see the race?

Did you see others note that Solinsky got boxed in?

He also got bumped and then finally pushed back to defend his space.

If you saw the race did you watch Solinsky the WHOLE time?

Someone Solinksy's size should not be getting bumped around by tiny runners. The first bump he should let them know who means business.

Mistakes and lack of aggression cost him the AR and at least 2nd place today.

He did not seem balls to the wall spent at the end of the race.

And I bet you he regrets not go after a bit more and getting the record when so close.

I agree, it was a terrible race.

If I was Solinsky I would vow to never again run such a crappy race. He ran much better races in high school.

It's like the politicians who promise great things, then once they get elected they act stupid.

Some of the comments here, do you people even think? How in the heck, if he ran 12:52, would someone who ran 12:57 then beat him. That is nuts. Had he run 12:52 then he would have ended up much better than he did. Let's say worst case he ended up 12:52 and 10th place. Well I'd rather run my best and get 12:52 and get 10th, than 12:56 and run like a fool. But he would have placed higher with a 12:52. IMO you always do better by running your best.

Agree, it would have been nice to see him experiment with that; it did look like he was going to make it a two man race...but hesitated, perhaps as you mention he thought he'd get pulled to the record.

You apparently saw the same race I did, and paid close attention.

Malmo (rhymes with "know it all") not so much.

It blows my mind that Webb and Goucher have basically the same 3k PR.

The 3k AR would definitely be a good goal for Webb if he ever returns to his former self.

No not actually, I've never been one of those to post that.

My handle ought to tell you that.

My guess is the people who do post that are Euro, Brits, or of East African origin or descent.

Seeing the hesitation, the boxing, the bumping, and how close he was to that AR...was a disappointing.

So close, so far.

I don't think he ran like a fool, I think he made some tacitical, instinctual mistakes. They may have been small, but resulted in a critical time diff. Hesitated, got boxed, lost time, shied away when getting bumped until finally pushing back (come on he is a line backer, for chrissakes, no tiny runner should ever think about bumping or cutting in on him, he should make that clear from now on, you mess with CS, you end up in lane 3.)

Compare, again, the last 1000 of his 10,000 AR.

The quality of the field in his 10000m AR was well below that of the Zurich 5000m. Unless you're K. Bekele, Geb or Komen, you don't run away from world class fields in the last 800m of sub 13:00 5000m attempts.

Sans K. Bekele, he is mixing it up with the best in the world on a regular basis. Some days E. Kipchoge is going to dust everyone, some days it'll be T. Bekele or Merga. Somedays it'll be Solinski. Other days, Kipchoge is going to have an off day and run 13:07...

You guys see K. Bekele take off with 1000 to go and crush a field to run 12:50 or so and think, "wow, that's a great strategy, everyone should do that." It clearly doesn't work that way unless you're K. Bekele.