Top All Time Kansas Distance guys

Where to start with Alex . Great coach Believed in toughness,Very clever . I almost went to Hays instead of Pittshurg.Made the mistake of walking up to him in the Conference XC meet in 72 ,asked him if he could use a 4:27 miler. He told me to get lost,not to bother him now. My timing was bad the pittsburg guy Nixion and his guy were locked up ,busting over hills and hammering it like I had never seen. I got my courage up enough to ask the Pitt Coach (Suenram) after the race the same question .He said sure when could I get there .The next year I won that Conference at Hays John Mason started us. Alex and coach Suenram matched witts a lot over the years and I learned a lot from both Coaches. A guy named Ron Larenz lives just down the road from me, another Alex Great.I put Alex, Dave Suenram ,Joe Vigil in the same type of Coach.

All the talk of Alex brings to mind Alex Hallock who had a fair career at Arkansas as a steepler. And in the category of All-Americans David Johnston of Lawrence High was one at Kansas in cross country.

[quote] bob mcleod wrote:

I got my courage up enough to ask the Pitt Coach (Suenram) after the race the same question .He said sure when could I get there .The next year I won that Conference at Hays John Mason started us.]

Hey, Bob: I'd forgotten about that. I remember, being packed into Suenram's station wagon, waiting to leave the parking lot after Conference X-C, and some guy was standing at the car talking to coach...and it was you! We were all annoyed, wanting to get the hell out of there, wondering who the hell this 'windbag was'....lol...then 2 months later you are there in Pittsburg jogging around on the indoor track with us, as a teammate! It is ironic to think that the meet you watched as an injured, overweight runner from Garden City JUCO, you won the very next year AT Hays!

I saw your thread about your coaching in the Kansas City area, a few weeks ago. Good luck with that.

Conference at Hays John Mason started us.

Something I remember about the famous John Mason, multi time sub 4 minute miler from Hays and the Pacific Coast Club starting us in that race; the announcer said "our starter today is sub 4 minute miler and graduate of Fort Hays State, John Mason"...I thought "John Mason!!, wow" and I turned my neck to look at him and the gun goes off, and I get out dead last from our stall, being caught flat footed...I got his autograph after the race, even though it was about 20 degrees.

Great story and good outcome. There is that word "timing" again. Similar story but different outcome for me. Summer after my jr yr in high school attended an FCA camp in Alamosa with my high school coach. He set up a meeting with Vigil. I had run 10:00 and 4:30 at the state meet. Vigil was cordial, but told me had dozens of runners like me. Stay closer to home and run for Alex.

My sr yr ran 9:24 went to FHSU. As a soph led our team to 4th team finish and was 13 in NAIA. Good story, but Adams put 5 in the top 11 and Pat Porter started his championship runs in cross country by winning. Vigil was right, he didn't need me.....

I too saw your thread about coaching in KC. Good luck. Sounds like a neat opportunity for those that want to continue after college. I admire your efforts and hope many take advantage of it.

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muleman-'73 wrote:

At CMS, we had some good ones back then, esp. post college: Mark Curp, Ron Tabb on the national scene, and Charlie Gray, a top regional level guy and now a national level masters runner.

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did you run for CMS as a senior in '73? Were you that wacky steeplchaser that wore the bandana around your head in the dual meet with us (PSU), at your place in '73? I remember your coach , Bob Busby, running a 4:18 mile as a workout right before our meet. We were sitting in the stands, killing time and were astounded. We didn't know who he was; (X-C all american), this guy in a fishing hat, racing flats with a funny stride, knocks out a quaility mile, alone on a windy day. I always thought it was funny that CMS always added the steeplechase to the dual meet with PSU when you guys hosted it, since you had alot of steeplers. Charlie Gray, (d2-champ-'75) and Ed Crumn come to mind during the '73-76 years. Two teammates of mine on Club Midwest, post graduation. I think SMS added the 10k one year to our dual meet, then threw 5 guys in it for points...lol...I hear that dual meets barely exist anymore on the college level. We used to have them yearly in X-C and track with teams like Wichita State, SMS, CMS, Emporia State, Arkansas, etc. I guess everyone goes to Invitationals in X-C and Relays in track now?

I missed a few days - so catching up here a bit.

Matt Vavla - I know the name, just can't place the school?

(probably West if Terry Coach was your coach)

Terry Couch actually was a teacher all along - he help recruit me to college on my visit (he has been a Middle school teacher - so some of his runners in high school and summer may not have realized that).

As for Wyco Loco - incredible track knowledge and stats! and he is right about (if you are not a teacher getting a coaching job) is tough - especially in Wichita. For some reason, AD's and current Head coaches have a real hard time understading how to build programs these days, having little clue about what makes a good coach. Most would rather keep a totally ineffective coach or if looking for someone new - hire someone who will bow to their politics, than actually coach. that is one big reason for the wasted talent in so many schools across our great state.

I was just looking at the program for WSU coaches clininc (I attended a few years ago)...by the way WSU coaching staff is excellent - so this is not a knock on them, but some where in that clinic they needed to explain to many of these high school coaches how track works: 1) how to build a program/get kids out, 2) how to score points (as in only the last 3 meets counts = which some many football/track coaches still don't seem to understand (as evidence by their putting distance kids in 4 events for 40 pts every meeet of the season), 3) to how to enter your studs for maximum points (when it comes to relays vs. open events).

The list of old great coaches was good. My brother went to Fort Hays during some of their glory days.

In researching top Kansas milers I just looked at those 1979 state 2 mile results - and was impressed by the list of winners grade trainer mentionded.

I would really like to see - or try to make a list of top Kansas runners (for road races 2mile-Marathon) The Kansas road race record book only included races within the state boarders...while most of us ran our fastest time outside the state. Any ideas of how to begin a list like that - or where to begin looking?

what I meant by those time are not being converted - is if they were being converted those guys you mentioned would be on the top 10 list since the 1500 list go all the way down to 3:55.

So I'm guessing they were all relays splits (which are harder to verify) or open miles that were not converted. This pertains to:

Mike Nixon's 4;08 (which you mentioned was a relay)

Clark Hamilton's 4:06

the others were all listed (as 1500's):

Jim Scott 3:47.84

Robert Marquardt 3:49.72

Doug Shreves 3:49.94

Please add any you know of:

(I;ll try to look up exact time for these)

Marathon:

1) Fred Tornaden 2:12:??

8K

1) Fred Tornaden 23:30's

2) Curt Shelan 23:30's

3) Tim Gundy 23:30's

2 mile

1) Tim Gundy 8:57

2) Trey Harrison 9:02

3) Lonnie Gee 9:04ish

2:11:35 Fred Torneden 1984 Twin Cities Marathon

Jerry:

You should check the websites for all the Mo. schools around KC too; some Ks. runners went to those schools.

jscott wrote:

...that wacky steeplchaser who wore the bandana in the dual meet with us (PSU), at your place in '73?

I remember that guy. He wore a scarf around his neck too. (no, it wasn't Charlie). Was it a guy named Mulligan?

We were scheduled to run the 2-mile on Fri. night in '77. However, a mighty thunderstorm blew through and they moved the race to Sat. morning. I was going to miss my HS graduation to run in the state meet. My dad rushed me to the ceremony and I walked in wearing my wet sweats under my cap/gown just as the last speech was finishing.

sebcoe59 wrote:

We were scheduled to run the 2-mile on Fri. night in '77. However, a mighty thunderstorm blew through and they moved the race to Sat. morning. I was going to miss my HS graduation to run in the state meet. My dad rushed me to the ceremony and I walked in wearing my wet sweats under my cap/gown just as the last speech was finishing.

classic! ...was that the start of them moving the 2 mile back to Saturday morning, thus putting a damper on mile/2-miler doublers? The 1st Friday night 2 mile was in '72.

this has been great reading, thanks to all you KS boys who have added your thoughts and memories to this thread. It's been great reading, especially since the usual LR haters have not invaded it.

An attempt to start the All-Time 5k list. Please add to it.

Mark Menefee - 13:37

Steve Fein - 13:43

Ryun??

Jim Ryun ran a 3 mile in the 13:20's, I believe in the '66-67 years I think.

Wyco Loco...Can you correct this? Correct spelling is Vavala.

[quote]jerrry wrote:

Matt Vavla - I know the name, just can't place the school?

(probably West if Terry Coach was your coach)

Terry Couch actually was a teacher all along - he help recruit me to college on my visit (he has been a Middle school teacher - so some of his runners in high school and summer may not have realized that).

One more name i haven't seen yet is Ben Schoonover (sp?) A decent runner while at Haven, who went to SoWestMissou, then transferred to Wake Forest and really ran well and became all american. Anyone know his HS and College times to see how much he improved?