This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, there is no reason why the NCAA shouldn't be the best talent all over the world. Look at the NBA, Luka, Joker, Giannis -- not exactly home grown American kids. The age limit is absolutely a concern, but one American kids frequently abuse too (BYU). The real complaint I see legitimacy too is: should taxpayer funded athletic scholarships at public universities go to foreign students, when they primary point is to develop U.S. talent? That maybe should be given some thought.
That's not true. Maybe that's how it should be, but in reality, scholarships are used so that coaches can recruit the talent they need to win or meet whatever goals their AD sets fur them. The only way to change this is to shift the incentive structure for coaches. I do think there is a strong case for limiting overseas athletes in the Olympic sports in the NCAA due to the limited financing around those sports compared to the money sports. But leadership needs to come from the very top, not individual coaches or schools
This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, there is no reason why the NCAA shouldn't be the best talent all over the world. Look at the NBA, Luka, Joker, Giannis -- not exactly home grown American kids. The age limit is absolutely a concern, but one American kids frequently abuse too (BYU). The real complaint I see legitimacy too is: should taxpayer funded athletic scholarships at public universities go to foreign students, when they primary point is to develop U.S. talent? That maybe should be given some thought.
Should foreigners receive US taxpayer-funded scholarships is the best argument by far
NCAA Men’s volleyball is now all about international players being recruited.
I don’t know for certain but I hear men’s ncaa tennis is the same
non Olympic sports are screwed for developing American talent how the ncaa now works.
I think it's true with most sports besides football. One third of NCAA hockey players are from Canada. Most of the Nordic skiers are Scadinavian. Tennis is probably the worst where 2/3 of the athletes are international.
Are fans of those sports complaining as much about foreign athleres? I don't know. Would people here feel differently if all those Kenyan XC runners were from Norway?
This is F***ing ridiculous, 25 of the top 30 finishers in the Men's XC NCAA Championship were international. Most from Kenya. We need to save the NCAA and limit internationals, limit the ages - and drug test them.
Top Americans:
2nd - Rocky Hansen
7th - Gary Martin
16th - Colin Sahlman
25th - Aiden Smith
28th - Ethan Coleman
You need to stop blaming others, and pull up your bootstraps.
Let's talk about how these coaches are gaming the system to get "rich quick" with international athletes.
State-funded universities: Public universities receive state and federal funding for their overall operations. A portion of this funding is used to cover costs for the athletic department, even for profitable programs. Subsidies: Most Division 1 athletic departments rely on subsidies from their university, which is funded by taxpayers. This helps cover a wide range of expenses, including coaches' salaries and facility maintenance. Stadiums and facilities: State and local governments often use tax dollars to help finance sports stadiums and other athletic facilities used by both professional and collegiate teams. Tax breaks: Taxpayers can also indirectly subsidize sports through tax breaks, such as the ability for team owners to amortize the value of a franchise, which reduces their taxable income.
Instead of developing US athletes (whose parents paid into the program indirectly and directly) -- the coaches choose fund international runners from other countries.
Remove tax dollar funding for all schools that choose to fund international athletes (excluding US territories).
If the international athlete wants to participate let him/her fund their own way.
Giving cross country scholarships to foreigners is way, way less offensive to me than what big time football and basketball coaches are paid with the same taxpayer dollars.
The Bama crowd at Bryant-Denny didn't seem to mind. Doris Lemngole got some nice Jumbotron time during the football game this afternoon and the crowd roared when they showed the video of her winning. If it wasn't for it occurring during a time out, I would have thought I missed a touchdown or something. Alabama, a school that was off-limits to all black students, American or otherwise, only 65 years ago, cheering wildly for a black Bama student from Kenya.
The Deep South moved passed its bigotry and xenophobia; maybe the LetsRun board should take a few lessons.
This is F***ing ridiculous, 25 of the top 30 finishers in the Men's XC NCAA Championship were international. Most from Kenya. We need to save the NCAA and limit internationals, limit the ages - and drug test them.
Top Americans:
2nd - Rocky Hansen
7th - Gary Martin
16th - Colin Sahlman
25th - Aiden Smith
28th - Ethan Coleman
Honestly, this is a better showing by Americans than I thought! Especially with 2nd and 7th. I think the age stuff is ridiculous and taking away opportunities from US high schoolers is tough, but the silver lining is that this competition has no doubt made the top end of American distance runners better. I'm still unsure where I stand though on changes that should be made beyond at least age limits
My take:
If you start college running (or any sport) at 17, you get 6 years to complete FIVE years of eligibility. The senior division for xc and track and field is the year you turn 20. So, 17 year olds should be given a break to develop their xc/athletics skills given that half of their eligibility window is considered the Junior worlds level of competition. If the ncaa adopts this rule, it would need to be universal for all sports.
Whatever year you turn 25 years old, you get 2 years to complete a single season each of xc, and indoor/outdoor track and field. This should discourage coaches rolling the dice to get an athlete for a max of just one season across xc and indoor/outdoor track and field.
Why 25? Obamacare says you can be covered by parents health insurance until you turn 26. So, this is a reasonable societal ceiling to, "ok, it is time for you to start your own life!" You are a FULL adult now. This is not the movie, Old School, with Will Ferrell where you go back to school as a "mature" up 40 something. Ha!
It does not "feel" right to allow those turning 26 to have eligibility for any sport. So, this rule would apply to all sports for div. 1 and 2 that do scholarships. This does not apply to JUCO or D3 as they are not scholarship programs.
We cannot create rules like Japanese pro baseball to limit number of "foreigners". Remember, they are "scholar" athletes. So, academics comes first, right? Lol.
The ncaa has become so professionalized that it is crazy! The age guidelines with eligibility rules should help. Personally, athletics junior program needs 3 levels - under 18 (high school juniors and younger); under 20 (no older than college sophomores); and under 23 (no older than college seniors). That is a topic for another thread.
This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, there is no reason why the NCAA shouldn't be the best talent all over the world. Look at the NBA, Luka, Joker, Giannis -- not exactly home grown American kids. The age limit is absolutely a concern, but one American kids frequently abuse too (BYU). The real complaint I see legitimacy too is: should taxpayer funded athletic scholarships at public universities go to foreign students, when they primary point is to develop U.S. talent? That maybe should be given some thought.
It’s the NCAA (national), not the ICAA (international) college athletic association
This is F***ing ridiculous, 25 of the top 30 finishers in the Men's XC NCAA Championship were international. Most from Kenya. We need to save the NCAA and limit internationals, limit the ages - and drug test them.
Top Americans:
2nd - Rocky Hansen
7th - Gary Martin
16th - Colin Sahlman
25th - Aiden Smith
28th - Ethan Coleman
As soon as you let yourself realize the NCAA is an international sporting body, you’ll be fine.
The NBA (NATIONAL Basketball League) has tons of international players.
you want to artificially protect the ncaa for USA-only athletes and then let them go out into the international world to compete and not be prepared?! “Our” athletes get the chance to compete internationally in some sense while in college. It’s cool.
I remember running against Boaz Chebo… in college, and I loved it.
This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, there is no reason why the NCAA shouldn't be the best talent all over the world. Look at the NBA, Luka, Joker, Giannis -- not exactly home grown American kids. The age limit is absolutely a concern, but one American kids frequently abuse too (BYU). The real complaint I see legitimacy too is: should taxpayer funded athletic scholarships at public universities go to foreign students, when they primary point is to develop U.S. talent? That maybe should be given some thought.
It’s the NCAA (national), not the ICAA (international) college athletic association
Yeah, for universities in our nation. Those universities having international students since the existence of the NCAA.
All you people have are these middle school level COD lobby insults, because you know your actual position it indefensible. Same with the men in women's sports defenders. (Probably because the venn diagram heavily overlaps)
I can guarantee you that just like that issue, this BS would be 80/20 in a national poll. You can throw out as many "keep crying bro" or "muh that doesn't happen chud" comments as you want, it's not gonna change that reality. How about you act like an adult and actually argue for your position on its merits?
What's there to argue? That is literally the way the rules are written. Just because you don't like the rules, that doesn't suddenly make your opinion valid as the counterexample. It's just some rando crying that the color of the skin of the athletes he likes are slow and getting their asses handed to them.
You can't have it both ways. If you're in favor of roster limits and not giving scholarships to non-American citizens -- as pure DEI as it gets -- then you must also be in favor of making sure that the admissions process is no longer completely blind to anything other than merit and is now taking into account the inherent disadvantages that come from one's socioeconomic and cultural environment.
Why should I care that slower, less talented runners finished behind more talented ones?
Is America not a meritocracy? :(
Exactly. If two Kenyans ran 7:30 at bu last year everyone would lose it.
So if the Americans are already faster in the 3k then how are the Kenyans helping American athletes be more competitive on the world stage? That's your primary argument in favor of the flood of foreigners coming over, and you just pointed out one of the many flaws in it!
This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, there is no reason why the NCAA shouldn't be the best talent all over the world. Look at the NBA, Luka, Joker, Giannis -- not exactly home grown American kids. The age limit is absolutely a concern, but one American kids frequently abuse too (BYU). The real complaint I see legitimacy too is: should taxpayer funded athletic scholarships at public universities go to foreign students, when they primary point is to develop U.S. talent? That maybe should be given some thought.
That's not true. Maybe that's how it should be, but in reality, scholarships are used so that coaches can recruit the talent they need to win or meet whatever goals their AD sets fur them. The only way to change this is to shift the incentive structure for coaches. I do think there is a strong case for limiting overseas athletes in the Olympic sports in the NCAA due to the limited financing around those sports compared to the money sports. But leadership needs to come from the very top, not individual coaches or schools
Of course it's not true. NCAA sports are not specifically designed or mandated to develop the US Olympic teams; that is obviously wrong and an insane thing to think.
College sports exist as a competition to win, as a function of the University calling attention to itself. Nothing more.
The morons who try to argue this stuff have absolutely no interest or ability to understand second-order effects. Let's say that these mouthbreathing retards succeed in making sure that the best and most talented scientists no longer come to the US; they instead go to Oxford, McGill, whatever. Well guess what, now England and Canada are the beneficiary of their research and the companies they start after they study, all because some David Duke-ass idiot is butthurt that he's such an unimportant, untalented loser and he takes it out on any proxy he can.
0% chance Grant Fisher is a wr holder if NCAA has always been limited to Americans.
This is correct. Pretending otherwise is hilarious.
So the people Grant raced against when he was 18-22 are the primary reason he broke a world record 6 years later? If they prepared him so well, why didn't he break the record in college? You are full of s**t.
And which foreigners helped Hocker? He beat everyone in the NCAA by a lot except American Nuguse. How did Hocker win an Olympic Gold and a World Championship gold without Kenyan guys kicking his @SS in college? The Kenyans helped Hocker get faster by staying behind him, Nuguse, and Teare in races?
Americans used to talk smack about hard work and putting in the work to be successful. But when it's an African they cry like whiny bitches if they can't win and then throw all kinds of accusations.
Bunch of cry babies who can't compete and always blaming others for your lack of success.