Regardless of what that article says, I couldn't support an organisation that comes up with that logo. I mean, look at it. The fonts (all of them), the colours (jfc, just look at it). It truly, genuinely looks like a parody. Imagine the people that "designed" it, reviewed it, approved it, and unironically use it. I can hardly believe we're the same species.
I love it there and we have considered retiring in France but it's clear to me that the Euro Far Right, taking cues and inspiration from the US, is rising fast.
In the long-term, you want to live somewhere where:
1. You won't stick out like a sore thumb 2. You can learn the language to a high level over the course of a few years (if it's not English) 3. The people harbor little xenophobia toward Americans 4. The threat of an authoritarian slide is lower than in the US 5. The bureaucracy of visas is tractable -- which depends a lot on the country, your wealth, and your profession.
When you narrow the list down based on these criteria, it's short for most people -- especially after you take a hard look at visa possibilities.
My thesis is that the Putinism/Orbanism that is coming to the USA will not impoverish the nation. The one thing this country can't handle is economic distress. And certainly so far, in Trump 1 and Trump 2 the nation has not suffered economically so that is likely to continue.
I think we are post-history in the sense that capitalism is so powerful and so entrenched that we will all continue to be wealthy enough to be comfortable even when politics goes to heck. We're not going to get the poverty of socialism and communism in the USA....we're going to continue to get high living standards...but fewer freedoms and a lot more stress.
Look, heck, even China with its terrible government hasn't prevented global capitalism to make their citizens much richer than before. I don;t think even trump could ruin the powerful mechanism of global capitalism.
This doesn't really ring true for the middle and poorer classes and for minorities.
American "capitalism" works for upper middle class to the rich, but doesn't really work for everyone, like single parent families or part-time workers.
Since Reagan reshaped Republican fiscal policies effectively giving more money to the wealthy, while the ecomony has steadily grown, real wages for the middle class have remained frozen. A single earner in the '80s could support a household, while today most households require two incomes. Having both parents work exacerbates many social problems. Had wages simply grown with the growth of the economy, many of the government social programs would be largely reduced, if not unnecessary.
Both Trump 1 and Trump 2 terms have come with high inflation and job losses or poor job growth. The Trump 2 term will be a smash and grab for Trump and his immediate family, and handouts to his wealthy supporters.
nah the whole 'only wealthy people have done better' is just not true. The pie has gotten much, much larger over the last decades, as have all slices of that pie. Wages all across the spectrum have risen a large amount. Don't believe the myths.
we're all getting richer, but sure, rich people have gotten richer faster.
fair question. I already am a rich man so it's tricky...In Europe I might be able to have a higher lifestyle because my dollars might go farther there.
but there's a catch...if I go to Europe, I'd live in a very expensive place like Rome, London, St Moritz, etc. I would not live in the kind of poor hill town in Southern Italy that drags down the European numbers. So the Europe advantage might weaken in that situation.
But generally, it's a good question. Live in a poorer place but with better politics or a richer place with an authoritarian chaos agent in charge. I'm not sure what the right answer is. Different for everyone I suppose.
I'm sure if you are young and still working and trying to save for retirement, the US is better financially. I'm past that.
The US isn't necessarily the best place financially for a young person, although it's improving now. It's very difficult for a young American to afford their first home (one of the best ways to long term wealth), and due to the inability of people to move out of apartments and into houses, rents are up.
wages in the US are far higher than any of its peer nations. We have shot over europe and esp Japan. In a league of our own.
but yes, buying a home in a blue state where the wealth is generated and the good jobs are is hard right now and a knock on the US.
nah the whole 'only wealthy people have done better' is just not true. The pie has gotten much, much larger over the last decades, as have all slices of that pie. Wages all across the spectrum have risen a large amount. Don't believe the myths.
we're all getting richer, but sure, rich people have gotten richer faster.
First graph is per capita, the massive gains for the super wealthy push up the per capita. That says nothing about the balance of who’s getting the money.
Second graph is essentially flat from the 1980s until Obama’s second term. Then gets weird around Covid and inflation spike. (At least this is median which is more relevant, but does not capture the struggles of the bottom ~30-40%)
EVERY country has it's cons and pros. Also every country has places where none of these matter or even are reversed. Living in the woods in Alaska is surely very much different from living in Detroit. In many cases you don't need to move, it's enough to simply turn off the TV, delete social media and stop engaging in polarizing discussions with people.
Also, look for productive, positive communities and try to be a part of it. Dealing with negative people (also online) is tiring in any country. It's all in the attitude.
Lets say that you are not happy with how things are playing out in the US, and you are reviewing your options if you decide you can't live here anymore.
What country would you like to move to? And why?
I'm thinking some of the scandanavian countries, but open to ideas. And don't want to find myself in a similar situation.
Where's it looking good abroad?
Get some geophysicists and make America Gondwana again. Or better yet, the singularity. Then everyone will be everywhere and there will be no need for emigration or immigration.
nah the whole 'only wealthy people have done better' is just not true. The pie has gotten much, much larger over the last decades, as have all slices of that pie. Wages all across the spectrum have risen a large amount. Don't believe the myths.
we're all getting richer, but sure, rich people have gotten richer faster.
First graph is per capita, the massive gains for the super wealthy push up the per capita. That says nothing about the balance of who’s getting the money.
Second graph is essentially flat from the 1980s until Obama’s second term. Then gets weird around Covid and inflation spike. (At least this is median which is more relevant, but does not capture the struggles of the bottom ~30-40%)
ok on per capita
second graph shows a large increase in real income that you can't talk away.
But ok, if you want to talk median income to unskew from rich people, fine, I've posted it below.
The median income chart also shows a very sharp rise in income.
Data show rising incomes, a larger pie for all. The bernie story of stagnating wages is a myth used to manipulate voters. It's not true.
In the long-term, you want to live somewhere where:
1. You won't stick out like a sore thumb 2. You can learn the language to a high level over the course of a few years (if it's not English) 3. The people harbor little xenophobia toward Americans 4. The threat of an authoritarian slide is lower than in the US 5. The bureaucracy of visas is tractable -- which depends a lot on the country, your wealth, and your profession.
When you narrow the list down based on these criteria, it's short for most people -- especially after you take a hard look at visa possibilities.
I think many Americans are so used to having the most BASIC needs met through our infrastructure that they do not even consider them to be a function of government.
Streets, police, fire protection, functional roads, electricity, safe potable water, medical care.. all of these things are luxuries in some countries. Also, if you are looking to retire somewhere, those needs are multiplied. It's one thing to be 25 living in a Third World country, it's another thing all together if you're 65.
Where would a person go if he had, had enough of paved roads, cars, electricity, jobs, freedom?
Maybe a place where they have those things but don't have a health care system that's responsible for most bankruptcy filings, a government that's kidnapping people, tens of millions working for poverty wages, that's illegally sinking ships and killing people in international waters, a political system where it's nearly impossible to get elected to any remotely high office without spending massive amounts of money...
The saddest theme in this whole thread is that so many "freedom loving Americans" are willing to run away because they can afford it.
Trump and Project 2025 are the result of complacency. Only 61% of registered voters could be bothered to cast a ballot. The popular vote tallies indicate that roughly 31% of voting Americans wanted this government and many of them now feel burned because Trump's policies are causing them to suffer. Essentially, we are allowing a tyranny of the minority thanks to the uninformed, the lazy, and the unmotivated.
Here is the part that absolutely angers me. You love freedom. You love the Constitution. You love the American way of life. You won't f**king fight for it beyond complaining on a running site filled with bots or attending a safe space rally. Our ancestors literally put their lives on the line and many gave all to make this grand experiment possible, but you don't have the brass to defend it in any meaningful way. That's why we are losing our freedoms and why Trump and his allies can get away with the things that they are doing. You are spineless, more worried about keeping your jobs and your money than fighting for the very system that gave you those things. You are weak and feckless.
Enjoy your lives abroad as minorities. Hope that you do not become targets of crime or deported back to the USA (or renditioned to a black site prison) when the locals get tired of too many loud Americans driving up home prices, rents, and swaggering around like they own the place.
The USA has been and always will be friendly to those who want to legally come here and contribute. Why support policies to allow anyone to just show up, deport, and show up again....and again? They all work under the table. They drive down job opportunities and depress wages for people here legally.
This is total BS. Unless you think only people from certain parts of Europe "wanted to legally come here and contribute."
The Immigration Act of 1924, or Johnson–Reed Act, including the Asian Exclusion Act and National Origins Act (Pub. L. 68–139, 43 Stat. 153, enacted May 26, 1924), was a United States federal law that prevented immigration fro...
