Jenny Simpson née Barringer? Set records at pretty much every distance she raced that stood for a long time.
I would not put Simpson in the all-time top-4 US collegiate females. She only ever won 4 NCAA titles and three of them were in the steeplechase when the SC was just beginning. Never won a cross country title, either.
All-time top-4 US pro females? Absolutely.
It's tough with Jenny because she was the first sub-4 collegiate runner in the 1500m, which was the 3rd fastest US female ever, but she didn't win as many titles. She competed during Sally Kipyego's reign (and she famously 'bombed' in her last XC race.)
I think I agree with you though; an incredible college athlete, but slightly under all-time top athletes.
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I would not put Simpson in the all-time top-4 US collegiate females. She only ever won 4 NCAA titles and three of them were in the steeplechase when the SC was just beginning. Never won a cross country title, either.
All-time top-4 US pro females? Absolutely.
It's tough with Jenny because she was the first sub-4 collegiate runner in the 1500m, which was the 3rd fastest US female ever, but she didn't win as many titles. She competed during Sally Kipyego's reign (and she famously 'bombed' in her last XC race.)
I think I agree with you though; an incredible college athlete, but slightly under all-time top athletes.
Wow I didn’t remember that about Jenny Simpson’s last CC race. In reading about it it sounds like she had a mental breakdown, not something physical. What an excruciating way to end a college career - but she more than made up for it as a pro!
If we move down to steeple, 2 mile and 1 mile and equivalent, only Addy Wiley (indoor), Elise Cranny, Angelina Napoleon and again Cain from among 40-50 athletes have made US teams.
Amazingly, in the whole record list, only Tuohy has won an ncaa title. (Wiley won NAIA).
Assuming all healthy, someone could run 14:40 at 5000 and still not get a team spot behind Houlihan, Cranny, Schweizer, Kelati, Andrews, Monson, Purrier and Valby.
Your thoughts are bold, will be fun to follow.
Except all eyes are on the next Olympic team and Cranny, Andrews, Schweizer, Purrier and Houlihan will be too old by then as more and more Janes start entering the picture.
^This. Was just going to write the same thing. NONE of those listed will be in the Olympics. Jane may get other competition from rising stars but all of these others will be DONE
Not a 5k runner in high school, but Mary Decker was a talent never seen before and rarely seen since in high school and she became the greatest in America and in the world. 83 double world champ and 85 undefeated. Mary Decker ran international competitions while in high school, including competing in a U.S.-Soviet dual meet in Minsk in 1973 and a U.S.-USSR indoor meet in Moscow in 1974. At the age of 14, she won the 800m against the silver medalist from the 1972 Olympics in her first international competition. 1973: At 14, after her 9th-grade year, she was invited to join a U.S. international team and competed in Minsk, where she won the 800m against the Soviet silver medalist. She also broke the U.S. high school record for the mile that year. 1974: At 15, she competed in a U.S.-USSR indoor meet in Moscow, winning the 800m event. During this meet, she also set indoor world records in the 800m and 880 yards.
Thank you for bringing the receipt. When people talk generational talent, they forget what Mary did at 14, 15 or 16 years old. Those results and times are, like Henry Rono running 4 different WRs in a summer, hard to conceive of today. And that is long before the Worlds in Helsinki in ‘83.
It's tough with Jenny because she was the first sub-4 collegiate runner in the 1500m, which was the 3rd fastest US female ever, but she didn't win as many titles. She competed during Sally Kipyego's reign (and she famously 'bombed' in her last XC race.)
I think I agree with you though; an incredible college athlete, but slightly under all-time top athletes.
She graduated with NCAA records in the indoor mile, 3K and 5K and outdoor 1500 and 3K.
If we move down to steeple, 2 mile and 1 mile and equivalent, only Addy Wiley (indoor), Elise Cranny, Angelina Napoleon and again Cain from among 40-50 athletes have made US teams.
Amazingly, in the whole record list, only Tuohy has won an ncaa title. (Wiley won NAIA).
Assuming all healthy, someone could run 14:40 at 5000 and still not get a team spot behind Houlihan, Cranny, Schweizer, Kelati, Andrews, Monson, Purrier and Valby.
Your thoughts are bold, will be fun to follow.
Except all eyes are on the next Olympic team and Cranny, Andrews, Schweizer, Purrier and Houlihan will be too old by then as more and more Janes start entering the picture.
As in multiple “Janes ”? It might be twenty years, or more, before we see the next one.
Not a 5k runner in high school, but Mary Decker was a talent never seen before and rarely seen since in high school and she became the greatest in America and in the world. 83 double world champ and 85 undefeated. Mary Decker ran international competitions while in high school, including competing in a U.S.-Soviet dual meet in Minsk in 1973 and a U.S.-USSR indoor meet in Moscow in 1974. At the age of 14, she won the 800m against the silver medalist from the 1972 Olympics in her first international competition. 1973: At 14, after her 9th-grade year, she was invited to join a U.S. international team and competed in Minsk, where she won the 800m against the Soviet silver medalist. She also broke the U.S. high school record for the mile that year. 1974: At 15, she competed in a U.S.-USSR indoor meet in Moscow, winning the 800m event. During this meet, she also set indoor world records in the 800m and 880 yards.
Thank you for bringing the receipt. When people talk generational talent, they forget what Mary did at 14, 15 or 16 years old. Those results and times are, like Henry Rono running 4 different WRs in a summer, hard to conceive of today. And that is long before the Worlds in Helsinki in ‘83.
Henry Rono was 26 years old when he set those records, so I’m not sure what he’s doing in a thread about the 19-year old Hedengren. Rono’s times are pedestrian compared to what is being run now.
Thank you for bringing the receipt. When people talk generational talent, they forget what Mary did at 14, 15 or 16 years old. Those results and times are, like Henry Rono running 4 different WRs in a summer, hard to conceive of today. And that is long before the Worlds in Helsinki in ‘83.
Henry Rono was 26 years old when he set those records, so I’m not sure what he’s doing in a thread about the 19-year old Hedengren. Rono’s times are pedestrian compared to what is being run now.
Yes, unsure why Rono would be conflated with a thread about Hedengren.
Except it was 1978, nearly 50 years ago; with today’s space age shoes and technology.. he’d have been the first man sub 27, sub 13, sub 7:30; sub 8. He was a superstar, a special talent who was the forebear of the freaks we see today.
Henry Rono was 26 years old when he set those records, so I’m not sure what he’s doing in a thread about the 19-year old Hedengren. Rono’s times are pedestrian compared to what is being run now.
Yes, unsure why Rono would be conflated with a thread about Hedengren.
Except it was 1978, nearly 50 years ago; with today’s space age shoes and technology.. he’d have been the first man sub 27, sub 13, sub 7:30; sub 8. He was a superstar, a special talent who was the forebear of the freaks we see today.
No doubt he was awesome and there wasn’t much handwringing about his age. He was the about the same age as Pre, and it would have been pretty cool if he came over as an 18-year old.
It's tough with Jenny because she was the first sub-4 collegiate runner in the 1500m, which was the 3rd fastest US female ever, but she didn't win as many titles. She competed during Sally Kipyego's reign (and she famously 'bombed' in her last XC race.)
I think I agree with you though; an incredible college athlete, but slightly under all-time top athletes.
She graduated with NCAA records in the indoor mile, 3K and 5K and outdoor 1500 and 3K.
Yes, unsure why Rono would be conflated with a thread about Hedengren.
Except it was 1978, nearly 50 years ago; with today’s space age shoes and technology.. he’d have been the first man sub 27, sub 13, sub 7:30; sub 8. He was a superstar, a special talent who was the forebear of the freaks we see today.
No doubt he was awesome and there wasn’t much handwringing about his age. He was the about the same age as Pre, and it would have been pretty cool if he came over as an 18-year old.
Craig Virgin did plenty of complaining about the older East Africans.
Except all eyes are on the next Olympic team and Cranny, Andrews, Schweizer, Purrier and Houlihan will be too old by then as more and more Janes start entering the picture.
As in multiple “Janes ”? It might be twenty years, or more, before we see the next one.
No not multiple Jane’s. You don’t need to be another Jane to make podium. The point is in 3 summers there will be younger and faster runners than those listed above who are nearing the end of their career.
As in multiple “Janes ”? It might be twenty years, or more, before we see the next one.
No not multiple Jane’s. You don’t need to be another Jane to make podium. The point is in 3 summers there will be younger and faster runners than those listed above who are nearing the end of their career.
We’re really talking about 2 years away. Taking the list, plus Hedengren and Valby, I don’t see any qualifying spots available for faster and younger runners. Who do you have in mind?
No not multiple Jane’s. You don’t need to be another Jane to make podium. The point is in 3 summers there will be younger and faster runners than those listed above who are nearing the end of their career.
We’re really talking about 2 years away. Taking the list, plus Hedengren and Valby, I don’t see any qualifying spots available for faster and younger runners. Who do you have in mind?
Its more than two years. That's a long time - and tougher to keep maintaining your previous speed, let alone get faster when you're over 30. You're already getting beat up from a decade of intense training, with a higher risk for injury. I also don't see any of the above making the team. There may not be an additional 2 Jane's but certainly plenty will be in line to make podium who are younger than 29.
We’re really talking about 2 years away. Taking the list, plus Hedengren and Valby, I don’t see any qualifying spots available for faster and younger runners. Who do you have in mind?
Its more than two years. That's a long time - and tougher to keep maintaining your previous speed, let alone get faster when you're over 30. You're already getting beat up from a decade of intense training, with a higher risk for injury. I also don't see any of the above making the team. There may not be an additional 2 Jane's but certainly plenty will be in line to make podium who are younger than 29.
You still didn’t name one. There’s not enough time for Zang and Bartlett to have a chance. The two fastest runners I found outside of the list have run 14:53 and 14:58.
Plenty does not equal none. It takes some time to reach that level and it’s two years and about 3 months until the 2028 OT.
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Its more than two years. That's a long time - and tougher to keep maintaining your previous speed, let alone get faster when you're over 30. You're already getting beat up from a decade of intense training, with a higher risk for injury. I also don't see any of the above making the team. There may not be an additional 2 Jane's but certainly plenty will be in line to make podium who are younger than 29.
You still didn’t name one. There’s not enough time for Zang and Bartlett to have a chance. The two fastest runners I found outside of the list have run 14:53 and 14:58.
Plenty does not equal none. It takes some time to reach that level and it’s two years and about 3 months until the 2028 OT.
Only two more weeks of borrowed time. Hopefully Jane running the 5k at Bryan Clay in 2 weeks will be live streamed.
What is really considered world class for women? If in 3 years she goes 14:18, 29:50, I'd think that is world class, barely. Won't win WC or Olympic title though, but I bet she can run those times.
14:18 will be about 45th best performance in 3 years time.
45th best, but there are a lot of repeat performances in that list. Only 15 women have ever broken 14:19 - I think being the 15th fastest performer ever qualifies as world class.
You still didn’t name one. There’s not enough time for Zang and Bartlett to have a chance. The two fastest runners I found outside of the list have run 14:53 and 14:58.
Plenty does not equal none. It takes some time to reach that level and it’s two years and about 3 months until the 2028 OT.
I don’t see Sadie moving up to the 5K. But don’t forget Ella Donoghu, Vaught, Appleton and Lowry will all vying for podium in 2028. And have a better chance than the future over 31 crowd
I have to go to bat for Jenny B. absolutely one of the best ever. 4 ncaa titles doesnt do justice to the dominance she showed her last year in the NCAA. She got 2nd to Sally K in cross twice which was just bad luck, and was injured indoors a lot of her career which brought the number down, but by senior year was better than even sally. She ran a completely solo early season 15:01 pre-super shoes, which was unthinkable at the time. Her final NCAA cross race was a bizarre meltdown, but she was so head and shoulders above the NCAA that there wasnt even discussion of the individual champion going into that race. 3:59, 15:01, and 9:12 steeple pre super shoes was insane. She should have doubled when she could finally run indoors her senior year to bring the title number up.