This story has gone mainstream and is being picked up everywhere. For example, Megyn Kelly talked about it and has video clips of some of the key moments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
No one is denying mentally ill people exist. But there is a lot of denial about what this particular bunch of mentally ill people indulges in, especially when it comes to children. Get them help, and keep them away from children.
Gender incongruence has been moved out of the “Mental and behavioural disorders” chapter and into the new “Conditions related to sexual health” chapter. This reflects current knowledge that trans-related and gender diverse identities are not conditions of mental ill-health, and that classifying them as such can cause enormous stigma.
Why don’t you go into the vicious politics and pressure behind the DSM being adjusted to falsly mislabel certain things as normal when clinicians know they are not? Or will you just cry to the mods as usual to have a factual post removed?
Why don’t you go into the vicious politics and pressure behind the DSM being adjusted to falsly mislabel certain things as normal when clinicians know they are not? Or will you just cry to the mods as usual to have a factual post removed?
This is rich.
Can you tell us who cried to the mods to get pictures of Gia Parr and Sarah Rose Huckman removed from this thread?
Why don’t you go into the vicious politics and pressure behind the DSM being adjusted to falsly mislabel certain things as normal when clinicians know they are not? Or will you just cry to the mods as usual to have a factual post removed?
This is rich.
Can you tell us who cried to the mods to get pictures of Gia Parr and Sarah Rose Huckman removed from this thread?
I made a couple of valid points. You can’t really counter them.
I can see where this going for a lot of people. I thought there could just be a reasonable debate about trans inclusion in sport, but I should have known better on LRC. For a lot of posters, this is about denying that trans people even exist. But maybe before you post such things stop for a second to consider:
1. 40% of trans people have attempted suicide
2. Around a third of trans people suffer from depression
3. Trans people are four times more likely to be victims of violent crime
This is a group that suffers from an extreme level of prejudice and abuse. Wherever you land on the debate about sport, you can retain some level of humanity and respect for others
No one is denying mentally ill people exist. But there is a lot of denial about what this particular bunch of mentally ill people indulges in, especially when it comes to children. Get them help, and keep them away from children.
The evidence is that the best course of help is to let them live their lives as their identified gender.
I made a couple of valid points. You can’t really counter them.
Valid points?
Why don't you show us the evidence that gender incongruence is mental illness?
This is an anonymous message board. So you don't have to worry about any political pressure. The site owners are 100% on your side.
Men who believe they are women are mentally ill. No one needs made up terms or flowery language to see that, except people like you. Incredible self deception. Other posters have already mentioned the disingenuousness, so we don’t need to beat on another dead horse. Please stop pretending you don’t run to the mods, a lot. Everyone is aware of it.
Gender incongruence has been moved out of the “Mental and behavioural disorders” chapter and into the new “Conditions related to sexual health” chapter. This reflects current knowledge that trans-related and gender diverse identities are not conditions of mental ill-health, and that classifying them as such can cause enormous stigma.
Why don’t you go into the vicious politics and pressure behind the DSM being adjusted to falsly mislabel certain things as normal when clinicians know they are not? Or will you just cry to the mods as usual to have a factual post removed?
The DSM does not use silly meaningless terms like “normal”. You are. Calling it dysphoria focuses on the defining symptom of the condition. That’s not political. Calling it a mental illness presumes a cause but no one knows what causes trans. Its only purpose is to stigmatize and to promote the position that the condition can be reversed by changing their minds. Just like they unsuccessfully tried with gays.
If someone is born with six fingers on a hand, no one thinks they are physically ill. Such people can lead problem-free lives if society didn’t mock and abuse them for their condition, and you would probably have no issue with their getting surgery if a doctor determined that it would help improve their quality of life.
The whole point of women’s sports is so that women have an opportunity to compete. If there were no women’s only divisions, there would be no women’s sports.
Then why do you have to make up malicious lies like trans women are jealous of cis women or they hate cis women or other ridiculous shenanigans?
That's absolutely unnecessary unless your intent is to use sports a weapon to demonize trans women.
You created this issue unnecessarily and now you b!tch because the public has put its foot down and told you no.
You can kick and scream like a child at a supermarket checkout line who has just been denied a Snickers Bar before dinner all you want. Not gonna change anything.
Then why do you have to make up malicious lies like trans women are jealous of cis women or they hate cis women or other ridiculous shenanigans?
That's absolutely unnecessary unless your intent is to use sports a weapon to demonize trans women.
You created this issue unnecessarily and now you b!tch because the public has put its foot down and told you no.
You can kick and scream like a child at a supermarket checkout line who has just been denied a Snickers Bar before dinner all you want. Not gonna change anything.
No biological men in women’s sports
They don’t get it. Because they are mentally ill. This is why they attack children. They are jealous of them. And most of them hate real women. They can’t see how obvious they are.
Latest 'Real Science of Sport' podcast has a great interview with Gladwell. He had been the chair on a lopsided panel against sports scientist Ross Tucker on the topic of Transgender Athletes in 2022. At the outset of the podcast he says he agrees 100% with Ross that there is no place for trans athletes in female sport and that he was ashamed of his performance on that panel because he was cowed by the panel/audience. "I was objective in a dishonest way- I let a lot of howlers pass without comment". He also calls for an end to the spectacle of boys taking part in girls' sport at high school level: "Parents are not gonna put up with this sort of bullsh*t".
Refreshing to hear someone hold themselves accountable for when they got things wrong/weren't as intellectually honest as they could have been on this topic. More of this please.
I'm glad he's being vocal now but it's a lot easier to do it now than it was 6 months ago.
I mean it's my belief that I was barred from broadcasting Ivy League track meets after I dared to write that column a few years back (2022) with Mara Yamauchi about how gender should have no place in elite sport. As recently as this winter, I was still not welcome at Cornell where I spent 10 years of my life even though the coaches wanted me to broadcast.
It's amazing how the trans people are on the retreat right now as they were so so aggressive at the height of the mania.
Many in the Alt-Right world want trans people to vanish - they think they are not real.
Gladwell - like most - is limiting his comments to sport. And most of us would agree - there some distinct advantages that accrue to being born cis XY.
That is Not anti-trans. It is Pro-woman Athletic Fairness and Safety. Simple. Period. It's also not a herd. It's breaking from the herd that managed to gain some seriously funky momentum. It was based on fear and guilt, and now the policies are much nearer reality and science and fact.
If trans females " just want to compete ", they still are able, and hopefully will --to at least stay physically heathy.
It is, by definition, anti-trans inclusion in sport. You can argue whether that's right or wrong, but you can't pretend that it's not anti-trans inclusion. Ross repeatedly makes that clear himself, that this is an issue about competing rights and wherever you land, one group is going to lose out in some way. The only issue that's really up for debate is which group you want to deprive. There's no perfect solution here, only a least imperfect outcome.
There is no depriving anyone of anything. Everyone competes in the category of their biological sex. No one is denied anything.
In age groups, we don't ask someone, "How old do you feel?" We look at their birth certificate. This should be no different.
Latest 'Real Science of Sport' podcast has a great interview with Gladwell. He had been the chair on a lopsided panel against sports scientist Ross Tucker on the topic of Transgender Athletes in 2022. At the outset of the podcast he says he agrees 100% with Ross that there is no place for trans athletes in female sport and that he was ashamed of his performance on that panel because he was cowed by the panel/audience. "I was objective in a dishonest way- I let a lot of howlers pass without comment". He also calls for an end to the spectacle of boys taking part in girls' sport at high school level: "Parents are not gonna put up with this sort of bullsh*t".
Refreshing to hear someone hold themselves accountable for when they got things wrong/weren't as intellectually honest as they could have been on this topic. More of this please.
I'm glad he's being vocal now but it's a lot easier to do it now than it was 6 months ago.
I mean it's my belief that I was barred from broadcasting Ivy League track meets after I dared to write that column a few years back (2022) with Mara Yamauchi about how gender should have no place in elite sport. As recently as this winter, I was still not welcome at Cornell where I spent 10 years of my life even though the coaches wanted me to broadcast.
It's amazing how the trans people are on the retreat right now as they were so so aggressive at the height of the mania.
Rojo- you're replying to my thread but my kiltedrunner account has been banned for 'spam' when I was simply replying to my own thread. Just Another Hobby Jogger, your posts may have been removed but at least you weren't banned- perhaps the boards aren't as one dimensionally moderated as you assumed?
I can see where this going for a lot of people. I thought there could just be a reasonable debate about trans inclusion in sport, but I should have known better on LRC. For a lot of posters, this is about denying that trans people even exist. But maybe before you post such things stop for a second to consider:
1. 40% of trans people have attempted suicide
2. Around a third of trans people suffer from depression
3. Trans people are four times more likely to be victims of violent crime
This is a group that suffers from an extreme level of prejudice and abuse. Wherever you land on the debate about sport, you can retain some level of humanity and respect for others
You don’t get it. The debate is over. You lost.
How exactly have I lost? If you had bothered to read any posts, I said that on balance, I think the outcome that WA has landed on is the least worst outcome. In any debate about competing rights, someone ends up losing out, and I think it's ok to recognise that.
What I can't accept, and will always fight, is the intolerance that so many posters have displayed. The denigration of trans people for wanting to live their lives as they see fit, and the repetition of far-right tropes about trans people is vile. If posters said the same things about any other minority group, they'd be permanently banned from the forum, but it's now open season on trans people and the small men of LRC are glorying in it.
What I can't accept, and will always fight, is the intolerance that so many posters have displayed. The denigration of trans people for wanting to live their lives as they see fit,
In the context of sport, males who wish they were women 'living their lives as they see fit' means forcing their way into the races, matches, training facilities, and changing rooms of females. This severely impacts the fairness, safety and integrity of female sport and actively denies women their right to participation when denied a place to make way for a male. The attitude of the males doing this is pure intolerance on a scale that massively outweighs any intolerance you see here for simply calling it out.
What I can't accept, and will always fight, is the intolerance that so many posters have displayed. The denigration of trans people for wanting to live their lives as they see fit,
In the context of sport, males who wish they were women 'living their lives as they see fit' means forcing their way into the races, matches, training facilities, and changing rooms of females. This severely impacts the fairness, safety and integrity of female sport and actively denies women their right to participation when denied a place to make way for a male. The attitude of the males doing this is pure intolerance on a scale that massively outweighs any intolerance you see here for simply calling it out.
Well said.
They framed the issue as being about civil rights when it was really about protecting women. When they got called out on this, instead of apologizing, which is what they should’ve done, they just moved the goal posts.
The "defenders of women's of sport" are never defenders of WNBA, or defenders of equal pay, or defenders of access to abortion.
In fact, I'd go as far as to say they're usually the opposite: the men who endlessly post about trans athletes are the same who denigrate WBNA, and equal pay, and oppose access to abortion.
You can't put us all in the same category. I'm left-wing, feminist, pro-choice, pro-equal pay etc. Have never voted conservative, but I can see the harm this issue is doing to the LGBTI community, to the trans community especially, I can see that it's not fair competition, and that the blowback on the trans community is far worse than any supposed benefit they think they're getting out of this. Women's sport does matter, it matters to women's equality and platforming of female role models, especially in parts of the world with regressive gender policies. And this is something that is damaging women's sport, not just the potential for takeover, but also for the change in how it is discussed - instead of women being championed, they are being sidelined, or worse denigrated as bigots when they should be celebrated for their achievements. You say you don't like how WNBA players are treated, nor do I, but female athletes in every sport are at risk of being abused and denigrated if this doesn't stop.
I'm assuming you are a woman, though? There are women that describe themselves as feminists and "gender critics". I don't dispute that.
However, when you examine the most vocal opponents of trans inclusion—those who believe trans individuals pose a sexual threat to women and physically harm children—they often hold similar views about migrants, and vaccines.