That Olympic record is impressive for getting it right on the right day. A superb performance that will live on forever.
However, when you adjust for the shoes, Centro’s 3:30 PR is really only slightly slower than Cole’s 3:27. Maybe a 3:28. So, when you look at the shoe adjustments, these two guys start to look identical in skill set.
This. Hard to dispute this post.
"Hard to dispute this post" the guy provided no evidence for his shoe adjustments. You really are an idiot.
It's his first Diamond League 5,000. His first race against world class competition, not just national class and he wasn't up to it. He can run the 5,000 at nationals for the national championship bonus but perhaps not run the 5,000 at the World Championships. Unlike the 1,500, Hocker has very little experience running the 5,000 against top competition.
What experience does he need to run the 5000m? If he wants to make the WC team, he needs run with the top 3 and hang on. There’s no other possible strategy for him.
You make it sound so easy. Just "run with the top 3 and hang on."
I'll spell it out for you. Hocker's main weakness as a racer, which he's admitted, is his lack of confidence when going with a hot pace. Even in his gold medal Olympic run, he hung back the first 200 when it went out fast, before he was even tired, before forcing himself to get up front in the next 100. He knew if he didn't stick with the leaders he wouldn't medal. Hocker still has a problem sticking with a fast pace even in a 1,500. The much longer 5,000 is even tougher for him mentally.
i really doubt cole is one to give excuses. in fact hes one of the only guys in current day that is very transparent about how much he hates losing, in interview after interview. especially after the 3k indoors where he lost to grant, the emotions were so clear that the man really hated losing. i believe cole's in a weird spot with his training, as he is training for the 1500 and 5k, which is why hes been struggling in the 800 in grandslam. i do just think stockholm was a bad day for cole and he will be back.
ive thought about this as well. i do feel like the extensive racing especially with grand slam is tiring him out and giving him lesser time to actually focus on the clear goal ahead.
ive thought about this as well. i do feel like the extensive racing especially with grand slam is tiring him out and giving him lesser time to actually focus on the clear goal ahead.
Clearly...Cole has been focusing on racing thus the big thorough block has been compromised a bit. In saying that he should feel good in the sense he still ran 13:09 and I am sure Ben will see this and make amendments. That is what good coaches do.
In order to win a medal at the World 1500m champs you need to be in Sub 13 min 5k shape based on what Jakob has done. If you don't have that capacity you won't be within striking distance in the last 200m.
He really fell apart at the end of this one. The Swedish guy started cranking out 30s and when the front of the race ran away from him Cole couldn't maintain.
Is there any point of him running 5000 at USAs now? Just focus on the 1500. Bring home gold
He finally stopped doping that’s what it is bruh!!
Im not being rude here but it’s becoming way too clear that Shocker’s performances have way too wide standard deviation in the winter spring and autumn to be believable. Bekele wasn’t like that. Heck even that doper Mo Farah didn’t run like that too.
ive thought about this as well. i do feel like the extensive racing especially with grand slam is tiring him out and giving him lesser time to actually focus on the clear goal ahead.
Clearly...Cole has been focusing on racing thus the big thorough block has been compromised a bit. In saying that he should feel good in the sense he still ran 13:09 and I am sure Ben will see this and make amendments. That is what good coaches do.
In order to win a medal at the World 1500m champs you need to be in Sub 13 min 5k shape based on what Jakob has done. If you don't have that capacity you won't be within striking distance in the last 200m.
??
Do you know how bad 13:09 is for a guy of Shocker’s achievement? And he didn’t even win the race. If he had won in 13:09 I would have nothing to accuse but now it’s so easy to accuse him of doping.
This post was edited 19 seconds after it was posted.
He really fell apart at the end of this one. The Swedish guy started cranking out 30s and when the front of the race ran away from him Cole couldn't maintain.
Is there any point of him running 5000 at USAs now? Just focus on the 1500. Bring home gold
He finally stopped doping that’s what it is bruh!!
Im not being rude here but it’s becoming way too clear that Shocker’s performances have way too wide standard deviation in the winter spring and autumn to be believable. Bekele wasn’t like that. Heck even that doper Mo Farah didn’t run like that too.
HOw about Hocker's 3000? do you believe he is doping for races in the winter and summer, but not spring?
ya i just don't think he has it as a 5000 runner. would love to see his splits for this race. what pace did he try to run that he just couldn't handle. and for how long?
He ran a 12:57 less than 2 weeks after his 7:23. on the fastest track available, with pacing lights probably perfectly set for his world mid abilities in the event.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
Clearly...Cole has been focusing on racing thus the big thorough block has been compromised a bit. In saying that he should feel good in the sense he still ran 13:09 and I am sure Ben will see this and make amendments. That is what good coaches do.
In order to win a medal at the World 1500m champs you need to be in Sub 13 min 5k shape based on what Jakob has done. If you don't have that capacity you won't be within striking distance in the last 200m.
??
Do you know how bad 13:09 is for a guy of Shocker’s achievement? And he didn’t even win the race. If he had won in 13:09 I would have nothing to accuse but now it’s so easy to accuse him of doping.
This is a good point. Not the doping part, but the part about how 13:09 is fine for an athlete of Hocker's caliber if he wins the race. But finishing 7th in this race, with that time, raises some questions.
To compare, Jakob won 5000m Norwegian nationals (unpaced) in 2024 with a time of 13:12, the day after soloing a 3:33 1500m in terrible conditions. In that context, running 13:12 is understandable to get the win.
What experience does he need to run the 5000m? If he wants to make the WC team, he needs run with the top 3 and hang on. There’s no other possible strategy for him.
You make it sound so easy. Just "run with the top 3 and hang on."
I'll spell it out for you. Hocker's main weakness as a racer, which he's admitted, is his lack of confidence when going with a hot pace. Even in his gold medal Olympic run, he hung back the first 200 when it went out fast, before he was even tired, before forcing himself to get up front in the next 100. He knew if he didn't stick with the leaders he wouldn't medal. Hocker still has a problem sticking with a fast pace even in a 1,500. The much longer 5,000 is even tougher for him mentally.
Right, it’s not easy to keep up, but it has nothing to do with confidence. So far, his PR is 12:58 and the Oslo pace was too fast for him. Was it a lack of confidence that caused him to finish in 7th place at the OT last year with a 13:21, 12 seconds behind Fisher? When you were in HS and college, was it a lack of confidence that prevented you from keeping up with a better runner.
He is closer to being a 800/1500m guy than 1500m/5000m, and he’s not as good in the 5000m as he is in the 1500m.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
You make it sound so easy. Just "run with the top 3 and hang on."
I'll spell it out for you. Hocker's main weakness as a racer, which he's admitted, is his lack of confidence when going with a hot pace. Even in his gold medal Olympic run, he hung back the first 200 when it went out fast, before he was even tired, before forcing himself to get up front in the next 100. He knew if he didn't stick with the leaders he wouldn't medal. Hocker still has a problem sticking with a fast pace even in a 1,500. The much longer 5,000 is even tougher for him mentally.
Right, it’s not easy to keep up, but it has nothing to do with confidence. So far, his PR is 12:58 and the Oslo pace was too fast for him. Was it a lack of confidence that caused him to finish in 7th place at the OT last year with a 13:21, 12 seconds behind Fisher? When you were in HS and college, was it a lack of confidence that prevented you from keeping up with a better runner.
He is closer to being a 800/1500m guy than 1500m/5000m, and he’s not as good in the 5000m as he is in the 1500m.
this is madness.
Hocker is a miler.
the 800 time for a world class miler is usually 144 ish, or better.
if a miler is coming off a training block, a 146 800 is a solid result.
if a miler is cutting back mileage and peaking with speed work, then he can run the 144,
5000m is long for a 1500 guy, and the specific training is more volume at 60 sec / lap,
after heats, in a training block, similarly, you're not going to max out in the 5k normally, and will be challenged mid race, where you either gut it out to manage 4th place, or use the rest of the race as a hard training session, and not fully completely exhausted, which is something you do not want to do on an off day of sorts.
that said, hocker with the very fast indoor 3k, can run 1250 5k, and probably faster up with Nico / Grant, that said, Nico and Fisher may break 1240 soon.
at the end of the day Hocker is doing just fine. keep doing what he's doing.
even the veteran posters here are quite confused about up and down here.
the 800 time for a world class miler is usually 144 ish, or better.
if a miler is coming off a training block, a 146 800 is a solid result.
if a miler is cutting back mileage and peaking with speed work, then he can run the 144,
5000m is long for a 1500 guy, and the specific training is more volume at 60 sec / lap,
after heats, in a training block, similarly, you're not going to max out in the 5k normally, and will be challenged mid race, where you either gut it out to manage 4th place, or use the rest of the race as a hard training session, and not fully completely exhausted, which is something you do not want to do on an off day of sorts.
that said, hocker with the very fast indoor 3k, can run 1250 5k, and probably faster up with Nico / Grant, that said, Nico and Fisher may break 1240 soon.
at the end of the day Hocker is doing just fine. keep doing what he's doing.
even the veteran posters here are quite confused about up and down here.
There’s a definite overreaction. In his primary event he is gone 3rd, 3rd, 2nd against prime fields. Historically he’s been worse in April/May than February/Summer. The off event stuff is a bit of a sideshow. Sure it’s interesting but mostly in the sense if you’re doing tooo well in your off event maybe consider a switch a la Georgia Hunter Bell or George Mills.
Hocker's ability at 800/1500/3k/5k is pretty closely aligned with another world class miler: Josh Kerr. Their PBs are pretty much identical at 800/1500/3k (when you convert Kerr's 8:00 2 mile). Kerr's 5k PB is only 13:23, but that was from 2021 and since then he has improved massively at 3k/2 miles and the half marathon, so it's reasonable to think he could run close to 13 minutes in the right race.
Would anyone be concerned for Josh Kerr if he ran a 13:09 5k? Probably not concerned for his ability to compete at 1500, but probably would if he was talking about competing for a medal in the 5k. Maybe Hocker puts it together and makes the 5k team, but at this point I would be surprised if that happened. He has nothing to lose by giving it a shot, though.
Hocker's ability at 800/1500/3k/5k is pretty closely aligned with another world class miler: Josh Kerr. Their PBs are pretty much identical at 800/1500/3k (when you convert Kerr's 8:00 2 mile). Kerr's 5k PB is only 13:23, but that was from 2021 and since then he has improved massively at 3k/2 miles and the half marathon, so it's reasonable to think he could run close to 13 minutes in the right race.
Would anyone be concerned for Josh Kerr if he ran a 13:09 5k? Probably not concerned for his ability to compete at 1500, but probably would if he was talking about competing for a medal in the 5k. Maybe Hocker puts it together and makes the 5k team, but at this point I would be surprised if that happened. He has nothing to lose by giving it a shot, though.
As for Hocker making the 5000m team. Fisher, Young and Blanks are strike one, strike two and strike three.
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