This assigns zero value to the baby avoiding the NICU beyond reimbursements to medical providers.
Are you seriously trying to say the value of the vaccine is exclusively the medical costs savings from a single acute treatment period?
It appears you are at about ~1930 in terms of your first principles derivation of healthcare economics. Keep it up! I like where this going. Now, could you maybe try to assign a price to a healthy baby. Perhaps some sort of integration of long term risks of severe infant viral infection?
Next unit: we will derive a QALY and discuss its strengths and weaknesses.
Class dismissed!
A simple yes or no to the questions I posed will suffice.
You are getting upset because you know the answers to the questions, but answering them truthfully will spoil your weak argument. Pearl clutching be damned.
I look forward to your next avoidance of my simple questions and you continuing to chase your tail.
Are pregnant women being denied the vaccine if they want the vaccine?
yes if they can't afford it with their health plan
Can anyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine without insurance paying for it?
No, it's not authorized for children under 6 months of age
Can insurers cover the vaccine if the CDC does not recommend it?
Yes but they likely won't fully cover it based on other vaccines as an example. The issue is that healthcare cost savings are likely net positive for the payers who don't cover a vaccine (disease HC cost burden is low) but non-healthcare costs for parents can still very high (time to care for child, risk of long term complications, stress, etc.). The payer and the parent have different cost functions for a COVID infection.
Are pregnant women being denied the vaccine if they want the vaccine?
Medicaid currently covers nearly HALF of the pregnancies and childbirths in this country. Take away the CDC recommendation, and Medicaid will not cover Covid vaccination for half the mothers in the U.S. For some of these mothers, the additional cost of the vaccine will be financially out of reach. Even if they had the money, it's bureaucratically and legally dicey for a Medicaid recipient to try to pay out of pocket for non-covered services. Some pregnant women will want the vaccine and be denied.
Congratulations! Come on down to your local maternity hospital, where you can ask if there's a place you can view a newborn gasping for breath so you can point and say, "I did that!" Or you could, I don't know, try not to be such an absolute ghoul about vaccines proven to save babies' lives.
So that’s a “No. Pregnant women are not being denied the vaccine if they want the vaccine” from you.
Thank you for at least answering the question and not running from it like Harambe.
Medicaid currently covers nearly HALF of the pregnancies and childbirths in this country. Take away the CDC recommendation, and Medicaid will not cover Covid vaccination for half the mothers in the U.S. For some of these mothers, the additional cost of the vaccine will be financially out of reach. Even if they had the money, it's bureaucratically and legally dicey for a Medicaid recipient to try to pay out of pocket for non-covered services. Some pregnant women will want the vaccine and be denied.
Congratulations! Come on down to your local maternity hospital, where you can ask if there's a place you can view a newborn gasping for breath so you can point and say, "I did that!" Or you could, I don't know, try not to be such an absolute ghoul about vaccines proven to save babies' lives.
So that’s a “No. Pregnant women are not being denied the vaccine if they want the vaccine” from you.
Thank you for at least answering the question and not running from it like Harambe.
Do you think fewer pregnant women will get vaccinated if it's not fully covered?
Are pregnant women being denied the vaccine if they want the vaccine?
yes if they can't afford it with their health plan
Can anyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine without insurance paying for it?
No, it's not authorized for children under 6 months of age
Can insurers cover the vaccine if the CDC does not recommend it?
Yes but they likely won't fully cover it based on other vaccines as an example. The issue is that healthcare cost savings are likely net positive for the payers who don't cover a vaccine (disease HC cost burden is low) but non-healthcare costs for parents can still very high (time to care for child, risk of long term complications, stress, etc.). The payer and the parent have different cost functions for a COVID infection.
Congratulations on answering the questions. Perhaps Harambe will use you two guys’ answers as a crib sheet since he can’t answer them.
You are incorrect on the first question. No one is being denied.
Partial credit for #2. The question doesn’t need clarification in the context of the discussion you have been late to jump in, but I guess I should have anticipated the less informed jumping into the conversation.
Zero credit for number 3. We are not dealing in suppositions here.
Perhaps you should stay after hours with Harambe’s class.
Are pregnant women being denied the vaccine if they want the vaccine?
yes if they can't afford it with their health plan
Can anyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine without insurance paying for it?
No, it's not authorized for children under 6 months of age
Can insurers cover the vaccine if the CDC does not recommend it?
Yes but they likely won't fully cover it based on other vaccines as an example. The issue is that healthcare cost savings are likely net positive for the payers who don't cover a vaccine (disease HC cost burden is low) but non-healthcare costs for parents can still very high (time to care for child, risk of long term complications, stress, etc.). The payer and the parent have different cost functions for a COVID infection.
Congratulations on answering the questions. Perhaps Harambe will use you two guys’ answers as a crib sheet since he can’t answer them.
You are incorrect on the first question. No one is being denied.
Partial credit for #2. The question doesn’t need clarification in the context of the discussion you have been late to jump in, but I guess I should have anticipated the less informed jumping into the conversation.
Zero credit for number 3. We are not dealing in suppositions here.
Perhaps you should stay after hours with Harambe’s class.
Fewer pregnant women getting the vaccine due to cost has the same effect as whatever you deem a "denial." You have a different view, rooted in semantics, I care about results. No big deal - not gonna argue.
More troubling to me is:
We don't get to evaluate policy changes based on possible outcomes? Discussions? Thinking?
So that’s a “No. Pregnant women are not being denied the vaccine if they want the vaccine” from you.
Thank you for at least answering the question and not running from it like Harambe.
Do you think fewer pregnant women will get vaccinated if it's not fully covered?
Unknown. We don’t know if it will not be fully, partially or not covered by any insurers.
Do you think women would or should spend $200 to save their newborn’s life? Do you think reputable doctors are going to suddenly stop recommending Covid vaccinations because of the CDC doesn’t recommend it?
Why are pharmaceutical companies charging so much for this drug? Do they not care about sending infants to the NICU? Are they as bad as the CDC?
Do you think fewer pregnant women will get vaccinated if it's not fully covered?
Unknown. We don’t know if it will not be fully, partially or not covered by any insurers.
Do you think women would or should spend $200 to save their newborn’s life? Do you think reputable doctors are going to suddenly stop recommending Covid vaccinations because of the CDC doesn’t recommend it?
Why are pharmaceutical companies charging so much for this drug? Do they not care about sending infants to the NICU? Are they as bad as the CDC?
So many easy questions.
I didn't ask if it's going to be fully covered or not. I asked "Do you think fewer pregnant women will get vaccinated if it's not fully covered?" It's ok to discuss hypotheticals!
Do you think women would or should spend $200 to save their newborn’s life? Do you think reputable doctors are going to suddenly stop recommending Covid vaccinations because of the CDC doesn’t recommend it? I think many women will pay for it based on their doctors recommendation and I think many will forgo it for the cost.
Why are pharmaceutical companies charging so much for this drug? Do they not care about sending infants to the NICU? Are they as bad as the CDC? To recoup R&D costs. I agree - we should subsidize basic and translational research more in the US.
Congratulations on answering the questions. Perhaps Harambe will use you two guys’ answers as a crib sheet since he can’t answer them.
You are incorrect on the first question. No one is being denied.
Partial credit for #2. The question doesn’t need clarification in the context of the discussion you have been late to jump in, but I guess I should have anticipated the less informed jumping into the conversation.
Zero credit for number 3. We are not dealing in suppositions here.
Perhaps you should stay after hours with Harambe’s class.
Fewer pregnant women getting the vaccine due to cost has the same effect as whatever you deem a "denial." You have a different view, rooted in semantics, I care about results. No big deal - not gonna argue.
More troubling to me is:
We don't get to evaluate policy changes based on possible outcomes? Discussions? Thinking?
We just have to wait and see what happens?
Seems boring... what's the point?
Im sorry dealing in reality is boring to you. To each his own.
It reminds me of when Obama was campaigning for Obamacare. The kooks came out with all these wild “what if” scenarios that never came to fruition.
Fewer pregnant women getting the vaccine due to cost has the same effect as whatever you deem a "denial." You have a different view, rooted in semantics, I care about results. No big deal - not gonna argue.
More troubling to me is:
We don't get to evaluate policy changes based on possible outcomes? Discussions? Thinking?
We just have to wait and see what happens?
Seems boring... what's the point?
Im sorry dealing in reality is boring to you. To each his own.
It reminds me of when Obama was campaigning for Obamacare. The kooks came out with all these wild “what if” scenarios that never came to fruition.
Yes, just sitting around and waiting is boring. I am not on a internet discussion board to experience reality or whatever. I am here to discuss.
I agree that almost everything can be painted as good or bad with hypotheticals. But that's no to stick one's head in the sand and give up.
Questions like "will fewer women get vaccinated if insurance policies change" and "are fewer vaccinations bad for public health" along with "are insurance policies likely to change" all seem rational and not difficult to predict given we have seen policy changes like this before.
This post was edited 55 seconds after it was posted.
Im sorry dealing in reality is boring to you. To each his own.
It reminds me of when Obama was campaigning for Obamacare. The kooks came out with all these wild “what if” scenarios that never came to fruition.
Yes, just sitting around and waiting is boring. I am not on a internet discussion board to experience reality or whatever. I am here to discuss.
I agree that almost everything can be painted as good or bad with hypotheticals. But that's no to stick one's head in the sand and give up.
Questions like "will fewer women get vaccinated if insurance policies change" and "are fewer vaccinations bad for public health" along with "are insurance policies likely to change" all seem rational and not difficult to predict given we have seen policy changes like this before.
This guy has gotten multiple people to answer his questions so many times but refuses to take a position on the CDC himself.
Now they sound like a college sophomore on weed for the first time “what can we REALLY ever know.” and “we can’t predict what can happen until it happens, man”
It’s embarrassing, and given their failure to interact with key questions posed to them at all, I must ask them to attend a REMEDIAL session.
P.S. you dropped the thread on pricing the true value of the vaccine? Should we return to it? I did like the train of thought you had going. Showed real potential for growth.
You’ve rejected about 12 hypotheticals as being unknowable in the last 2 pages.
The ability for abstract and extrapolative thought evolved roughly 1.2 million years ago in humans.
Now please don’t embarrass your ancestors on the Savannah and let us know what you think the CDC should do. Or continue to dodge the question in confusion as an Australopithecus might.
You’ve rejected about 12 hypotheticals as being unknowable in the last 2 pages.
The ability for abstract and extrapolative thought evolved roughly 1.2 million years ago in humans.
Now please don’t embarrass your ancestors on the Savannah and let us know what you think the CDC should do. Or continue to dodge the question in confusion as an Australopithecus might.
Even those at CDC shouldn't use predictive powers and abstract thought when making decisions. You must just let reality happen bro, come on.
Im sorry dealing in reality is boring to you. To each his own.
It reminds me of when Obama was campaigning for Obamacare. The kooks came out with all these wild “what if” scenarios that never came to fruition.
Yes, just sitting around and waiting is boring. I am not on a internet discussion board to experience reality or whatever. I am here to discuss.
I agree that almost everything can be painted as good or bad with hypotheticals. But that's no to stick one's head in the sand and give up.
Questions like "will fewer women get vaccinated if insurance policies change" and "are fewer vaccinations bad for public health" along with "are insurance policies likely to change" all seem rational and not difficult to predict given we have seen policy changes like this before.
If government “fails” people, is that the end?
Do we just give up on corporate responsibility? Insurers are just going to let infants die in the NICU because the CDC is not forcing them cover the cost of a vaccine? Do pharmaceutical companies just say that they are not offering the vaccine at a more affordable price because the CDC is not recommending something that is costing the lives of droves of infants? Are these companies just going to let the infants die in great numbers and not do anything about it?
Do we give up on personal responsibility ($200 to save my child’s life does not seem to be a steep price) because the CDC determined that the recommendation isn’t warranted?
Personal and corporate responsibility can more than cover for the CDC no longer having a recommendation for pregnant women to receive a vaccine. We’re not so weak that we need government to recommend everything.
I’m liberal on the majority of issues, but I understand that there is responsibility outside of government.