Are we considering the steeplechase a long distance event? Winning gold in the steeplechase and silver in the 1500 at the 1972 Olympics is an incredible accomplishment for Keino.
Yes, I did.
Also…I hate playing into Armstronglivs’s troll-hands, but there is way more reason to suspect the guy who beat Keino in the Munich 1500 benefited from blood transfusions than there is to suspect Keino of any kind of doping.
Of course I would beg to differ there. The Finns are suspected of blood doping but Vassala's performances didn't come out of nowhere. A very talented athlete.
BTW, I am not a troll, I have spent years informing myself about doping in sport, through talking with antidoping experts, pro athletes and coaches, and have a genuinely held and factually supported view that doping is throughout top sport and that it began decades ago and has, if anything, increased today. An unacceptable view to many here but that isn't a "troll" - unless that is merely to hold unpopular views.
Kip Keino did defeat Jim Ryun twice in the Olympics: In the 1968 OG 1500 final, and in heat 4 of the 1972 OG 1500. Keino and Ryun were seeded in the same heat in 1972 because Ryun's 3:52.8 mile that year - at the time the third-fastest in history - had mistakenly been listed as a 1500 time. Ryun was tripped by another runner in the heat, and failed to advance. Keino won that heat and finished second in the final.
Winning preliminary rounds don't count as a win. They are about qualifying. Snell finished second in some of his qualifying rounds in the '60 and '64 Olympics. No one claims the runners that finished ahead of him in those rounds - none in the finals - had a "win" over him.
when he repeatedly has stated that in wr regions the 1/100 count (Ingebrigtsen is not a 3:26 athlete - which he obviously is)
Dumb: Keino has not run faster than 3:36x at sea-level and 3:34x at altitude. Giving the impression that he has run 2 seconds faster at altitude. Btw. there is nothing wrong with that - in Mexico he has run the race of his life.
But let's check Dumb's "facts":
Mexico: 3:34.91, converted Mile PB: 3:35.83 - so a difference of 0.92.
So there is a new info for Dumb (also in fact it was given to him before) and he now could rethink his view little bit with this new info. But he will not, because he is not interested in facts.
He ran considerably faster at altitude than he ever ran at sea level, when most top runners will be considerably slower at altitude, and also only a day after coming out of hospital and having struggled in his earlier races. He never got close to that time again. If it was today we would say he's another Ramzi or Kiprop, or the Moroccan who incurred a whereabouts violation.
Super spikes aren’t worth that much in a 1500, and it’s a huge assumption that anyone has run sub-3:27 clean.
Oh, but they are. Just ask ArmstrongLiv’s buddy in Nick Willis. He’s already said they’re worth 2.5 seconds over four laps, and that’s the first generation shoes (research studies have both this out, more for less efficient runners). Otherwise I agree with your second statement that it’s a huge assumption. Especially during the Epo era.
Nick Willis isn't my "buddy" but he hasn't done a scientific study into the effect of the shoes. So where did he improve 2.5 seconds from the shoes? Also, who has seriously argued that El G's record is worth 3:23x in the shoes?
He didn't close 36 for the last 300. That was not a definitive measure and has been argued from analysis of the race that it is an exaggeration, that it was closer to 38.
He closed in 36.5
Who did this "analysis of the race" you are talking? Dumb himself?
It was around 36.5 - from non-Dumb analysis of the race.
Show the confirmed data (not the estimate) that says he closed in 36.5. Sorry, "around" 36.5. Like 38?
The sea level athletes mostly didn't stand a chance of winning in anything from the 1500 up.
At the men's middle and long distance events at Mexico '68 runners from non-altitude countries have won
2 gold medals
2 silver medals
5 bronce medals
The 800 was unaffected by altitude and may have benefited from it with the thinner air causing less resistance, as it did in the sprints. In the longer distances the winners were from Kenya, Ethiopia and Tunisia. Non-altitude runners struggled, there have been numerous accounts of this, and we also saw this with Clarke, who was by far the fastest distance runner in the world that year and had to be virtually carried off after the 10k in a stretcher. The winning times were very slow - over 14min in the 5k and 29:37 in the 10k. Mexico City were the "altitude" Games.
Oh, but they are. Just ask ArmstrongLiv’s buddy in Nick Willis. He’s already said they’re worth 2.5 seconds over four laps, and that’s the first generation shoes (research studies have both this out, more for less efficient runners). Otherwise I agree with your second statement that it’s a huge assumption. Especially during the Epo era.
Nick Willis isn't my "buddy" but he hasn't done a scientific study into the effect of the shoes. So where did he improve 2.5 seconds from the shoes? Also, who has seriously argued that El G's record is worth 3:23x in the shoes?
There are numerous scholarly articles supporting increased efficiency from the shoes and performance enhancements. A simple google search will reveal it for you The 2.5 sec is basically in the middle.
Let me reverse the hypothetical… you don’t think the three Olympic 1500 medalists from 2024 are capable of 3:25:00 with Epo? Epo was a helluva drug.
Also…I hate playing into Armstronglivs’s troll-hands, but there is way more reason to suspect the guy who beat Keino in the Munich 1500 benefited from blood transfusions than there is to suspect Keino of any kind of doping.
Nick Willis isn't my "buddy" but he hasn't done a scientific study into the effect of the shoes. So where did he improve 2.5 seconds from the shoes? Also, who has seriously argued that El G's record is worth 3:23x in the shoes?
There are numerous scholarly articles supporting increased efficiency from the shoes and performance enhancements. A simple google search will reveal it for you The 2.5 sec is basically in the middle.
Let me reverse the hypothetical… you don’t think the three Olympic 1500 medalists from 2024 are capable of 3:25:00 with Epo? Epo was a helluva drug.
I would go so far as to say Epo was worth “a second per lap.” Your three Oly 1500 medalists are all sub-3:25 guys on erythropoietin. But, go back to pre-2020 shoes and they are still 3:27 guys on Epo.
when he repeatedly has stated that in wr regions the 1/100 count (Ingebrigtsen is not a 3:26 athlete - which he obviously is)
Dumb: Keino has not run faster than 3:36x at sea-level and 3:34x at altitude. Giving the impression that he has run 2 seconds faster at altitude. Btw. there is nothing wrong with that - in Mexico he has run the race of his life.
But let's check Dumb's "facts":
Mexico: 3:34.91, converted Mile PB: 3:35.83 - so a difference of 0.92.
So there is a new info for Dumb (also in fact it was given to him before) and he now could rethink his view little bit with this new info. But he will not, because he is not interested in facts.
He ran considerably faster at altitude than he ever ran
Less thsn a second and not 2 seconds as you wanted to tell us.
Nick Willis isn't my "buddy" but he hasn't done a scientific study into the effect of the shoes. So where did he improve 2.5 seconds from the shoes? Also, who has seriously argued that El G's record is worth 3:23x in the shoes?
There are numerous scholarly articles supporting increased efficiency from the shoes and performance enhancements. A simple google search will reveal it for you The 2.5 sec is basically in the middle.
Let me reverse the hypothetical… you don’t think the three Olympic 1500 medalists from 2024 are capable of 3:25:00 with Epo? Epo was a helluva drug.
This is one of maybe 10 total posts (out of almost 40,000) where Armstronglivs is actually correct. Frankly, Nick Willis has no idea what he’s talking about if he really claimed the spikes are worth 2.5 seconds in a 1500. He is effectively saying that Jakob is the only legitimate sub-3:30 guy since 2019 which is total nonsense.
There are numerous scholarly articles supporting increased efficiency from the shoes and performance enhancements. A simple google search will reveal it for you The 2.5 sec is basically in the middle.
Let me reverse the hypothetical… you don’t think the three Olympic 1500 medalists from 2024 are capable of 3:25:00 with Epo? Epo was a helluva drug.
This is one of maybe 10 total posts (out of almost 40,000) where Armstronglivs is actually correct. Frankly, Nick Willis has no idea what he’s talking about if he really claimed the spikes are worth 2.5 seconds in a 1500. He is effectively saying that Jakob is the only legitimate sub-3:30 guy since 2019 which is total nonsense.
There are numerous scholarly articles supporting increased efficiency from the shoes and performance enhancements. A simple google search will reveal it for you The 2.5 sec is basically in the middle.
Let me reverse the hypothetical… you don’t think the three Olympic 1500 medalists from 2024 are capable of 3:25:00 with Epo? Epo was a helluva drug.
This is one of maybe 10 total posts (out of almost 40,000) where Armstronglivs is actually correct. Frankly, Nick Willis has no idea what he’s talking about if he really claimed the spikes are worth 2.5 seconds in a 1500. He is effectively saying that Jakob is the only legitimate sub-3:30 guy since 2019 which is total nonsense.
To be fair, Nick is now saying 1-3 sec per mile depending on the athlete, given recovery from training and actual racing. Previously he’d *estimated* they were worth about 2-2.5 sec in a 1500. And Nick is right, and I think we should listen to him. But, let’s go with two seconds…
Yes, I believe Hocker, Kerr, and Nuguse might all be just a hair under 3:30 in the old shoes. 3:29 is still flying.