Emma Coburn is a mom!

My wife and I spent years attempting to have children and finally went in a different direction to become parents and then were fortunate enough to have two children born in a "standard" fashion. We did not use surrogacy for our oldest.

The comments in this thread by those criticizing Coburn are beyond pathetic.

I congratulate the new parents.

You're giving yourself way too much credit.

Well, let's just say that they are lucky they lives in Colorado and not Flagstaff, because surrogacy contracts are illegal in Arizona and thus they would not actually be the parents unless they went through the process of legal adoption.

Genetically it's not her kid.

Unfortunately this is 100% correct.

100%

If you’ve ever interacted with a woman who trusts you enough to be open about her struggles, this isn’t even reading between the lines, it’s bold highlight and underline top of the page.

Just this morning, I was thinking about the differences between feminism a decade or two ago and feminism today. One major theme is this: people today seem to think that feminism or women's rights movements are all about compassion. Don't judge! Be nice! Shame on you! This extends to other social justice movements, as well.

But prior rights movements were based on principles like equal treatment before the law, fairness, etc., not on emotional appeals. Runnerchick's comments are aligned with this tradition and were clearly articulated in a rational and diplomatic way.

What we're seeing today under the guise of women's rights are constant emotional appeals and threats of public shaming through ad hominem attacks. These tactics are known in scientific literature as "female relational aggression" (read: Mean Girls), and they are being used to keep people in line with a set of feminine social norms (compassion, empathy, caretaking). These norms are productive in society, but they are not sufficient in and of themselves.

Social norms are reliant on judgement, rather than boundless acceptance of absolutely everything. Discussions about the ethics of surrogacy may be upsetting for people who have personal experience with surrogacy, but this should not make them out-of-bounds.

The fact is that many people have ethical reservations about surrogacy. We can suppress this discussion, but we're really just insulating people from the real world when we do so. It's like the South Park episode where the principal has somebody filter out negative comments on Cartman's social media because he was upset about them. I'm not in favor of posting surrogacy-critical comments on Emma Coburn's social media, but the suggestion that nobody should talk about it in any forum at all is ridiculous.

In reference to the part about men weighing in on this topic: my response is that it depends on what exactly they're saying. If they're talking about the experience of pregnancy or being an embodied woman, then it's fair to say they don't know what they're talking about. The question is: are they talking about externally-verifiable knowledge or the embodied experience of being a woman? Moral and ethical discussions about pregnancy, abortion, or surrogacy should not be foreclosed to men.

I'll note as an aside that many of the same people telling men to shut up about these issues will just as quickly tell you that trans women are women in precisely the same way that they are. Why? Because the logic of this ideology is to elevate compassion, empathy (but only for certified victims), and non-judgmentalism above all else.

As a woman who cares about women's rights, I don't have to shut up and be nice if I think there's something to discuss. Elevating compassion above all else is not feminist. In fact, it feels downright regressive.

Weighing in on this at great risk.

The trigger here for so many was the video itself.

In the video you see Emma and Joe dressed nicely as a newborn baby is pushed towards them by someone you don't see. Emma scoops up her baby as though it was a fresh delivery of flowers. The optics of the video do make it seem like Emma "purchased" her baby. We don't see the surrogate, and because Emma did not have the baby, we don't see her exhausted in the hospital, but rather dressed in jeans and a sweater. The video makes it look like a baby was cooked up just for her and she paid for it because she had the money to do so.

The video is misleading. It doesn't cover private details that are absolutely none of our business. Surrogacy IS a deeply complex process. Everyone's journey to parenthood (should they choose that journey) is their own. Some adopt, some have natural babies, some choose surrogacy. We have no idea what hardship or heartbreak Emma and Joe endured to get here.

Before commenting, try to consider Emma and Joe's announcement on it's own without the video and see what you think about it. I bet you'd be a lot less judgmental.

That was incredibly disturbing to watch. It's like she walked into a surprise birthday party. I was there when my wife gave birth 3 times. It's not like that.

Yes, this. It's as if people have picked up on the performative nature of a social media reel and transferred that ick to the process behind the scenes. It's not fair, though also not exactly unnatural.

I agree. The video was not great. What you wouldn’t see is if they used her egg, the painful process of extracting the eggs from her, the hormone shots, etc. One wonders how that part of the process affected her training.

Regardless, congrats to them. In a country where people are bemoaning the declining birth rates, here’s a couple ready to raise a child.

I am not being "judgmental" towards Emma. I'm talking about judgement as discernment and evaluation. My entire post is about moral and ethical discussions and distinguishing this from emotional gut reactions as much as possible. I have not weighed in on Emma at all or leveled any negative moral judgements against her or Joe.

your posts are just word salads.

I see the downvotes on my recent posts, but I haven't seen anbody discuss the substantive content of my arguments. Judgement is not judgementalism.

The truth is that I thought the video was sweet, and I really like Emma. However, I'm capable of having this emotional reaction to Emma in particular and of thinking through the ethics of surrogacy in general.

I completely disagree. I am a mother who has given birth via c-section. I thought her video was beautiful. When I watched Emma's tears as she held her daughter, it brought me back to that exact moment when I met my daughter for the first time. It was a feeling of happiness that was so full and deep. A love that is impossible to describe with words. The video was beautiful, and I think it's wonderful that they were able to capture that moment.

All of the people, especially the men, who are so judgmental, need to take a step back and reflect on themselves.

Congratulations to the new parents.

Not really.

Downvotes aren't an argument.