chadrunner wrote:
The South job market is booming.
God bless Joe Biden!
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\"multiple prohibited substances\" wrote:
Interesting thing here, to me, is that if you go to a fancy Northeast school, you'll likely get something like a liberal arts education.
Whereas if you go to big state U - anywhere - getting anything like a liberal arts education is pretty unlikely. Possible, but more likely you'll major in business, marketing, communication, or a pre-professional degree. You have to make an affirmative push to get one.
If you believe in passing along the culture and knowledge of Western civilization like many conservatives say they do....this trend is not great.
Ok, but it’s not just State U versus Ivy anymore. There are plenty of good, liberal arts schools, even in the south, and if they offer your 4.0, >1550 kid a huge merit scholarship, again, how do you not make that decision, especially as a pre-professional undergrad? It’s funny. My kid gets plenty of “well roundedness” in her mandatory LA classes, but she thinks they are all soft and fluff and hates them relative to her STEM classes. I’m not sure an English or psychology degree from a Brown is worth it anymore at $350,000+…
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Vee_Eye_Tee wrote:
KH at the wrote:
And I doubt very much that they're full rides. Pretty much everyone everywhere receives a partial scholarship of sorts when accepted at a school.
what often tends to be missing is grant money. like between a named scholarship and grant money the LACs i looked hardest at made it pretty cheap. if you are on aid then the loan and federal grant numbers tend to be identical from school to school, both public and private. ditto work study. it tends to be the scholarships and grants that differ. and some of that may reflect how bright or good an athlete you are, but some may reflect the school's resources. state schools, a really smart kid might be offered a ride, but if you have a 1600 and a 4.0 why aren't you at yale. now, that choice may be justifiable financially -- free school -- but it's a deliberate choice down the pecking order on ROI/name on the resume later on.
and a merely fairly smart kid will be offered a small partial. and that's about it. ditto weaker privates. and you will have a bigger gap than a good or great private that can offer scholarships and grants. and then it'll usually be, mom and dad can borrow. or you can pay.
but anyhow, if you are on aid, the big stat to look for before applying is % need met. and in a perfect world you get in a school that meets that need without loans. and like i said, my experience, they tended to be better rather than worse. if i had it to do again it would be all high % need met schools.
and i get for some daddy is paying but then my response is if daddy has those resources there has been some slippage if we're talking southern state schools and not ivy or ivy plus.
For Son No. 1, we applied to one state school (where he would get free tuition), and the rest were all need-blind, no-loan schools. This is the cheapest way to go if you have a smart kid. And you have to keep your fingers crossed, because all these schools are highly competitive. For Son No. 2, a high-school junior, it will be the same approach.
The key words: need-blind and no-loan. Research it!
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"multiple prohibited substances" wrote:
Interesting thing here, to me, is that if you go to a fancy Northeast school, you'll likely get something like a liberal arts education.
Whereas if you go to big state U - anywhere - getting anything like a liberal arts education is pretty unlikely. Possible, but more likely you'll major in business, marketing, communication, or a pre-professional degree. You have to make an affirmative push to get one.
If you believe in passing along the culture and knowledge of Western civilization like many conservatives say they do....this trend is not great.
This is hilarious, on one hand conservatives act like they are the only ones with open minds and on the other hand, they constantly whining about preserving "western" (aka white) culture and failing to acknowledge that other cultures have made significant contributions. Open your mind, bro
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Proud Brown Papa wrote:
"multiple prohibited substances" wrote:
Interesting thing here, to me, is that if you go to a fancy Northeast school, you'll likely get something like a liberal arts education.
Whereas if you go to big state U - anywhere - getting anything like a liberal arts education is pretty unlikely. Possible, but more likely you'll major in business, marketing, communication, or a pre-professional degree. You have to make an affirmative push to get one.
If you believe in passing along the culture and knowledge of Western civilization like many conservatives say they do....this trend is not great.
This is hilarious, on one hand conservatives act like they are the only ones with open minds and on the other hand, they constantly whining about preserving "western" (aka white) culture and failing to acknowledge that other cultures have made significant contributions. Open your mind, bro
Did they? How many things that truly advanced humanity took place outside of western Europe, north Africa, and east Asia?
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Pretty hard to argue with you when you clearly don't know what western civilization is.
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Proud Brown Papa wrote:
Kiln explosion wrote:
Rather, it seems that you advocate controlling unborn or partially born children to death.
always hitting the same lies. Partial birth abortion doesn't existing and a fetus by definition is always "controlled" by someone else. Damn you're dumb. Which Southerb school did you attend?
I remember the 1990s when partial-birth abortion came to the fore during the Clinton Administration. Some abortionists in Englewood, NJ, admitted that about 1500 of the 3000 abortions they performed were late-term. From the linked article:
Leading abortion advocates are circling their wagons, and poor Ron Fitzsimmons, once one of them, seems to have been shoved outside the tight circle.
Fitzsimmons is the conscience-stricken head of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers who now admits that he took part in telling Americans the big lie about so-called partial-birth abortions.
During the national debate on the late-term brain-sucking procedure, Fitzsimmons was one of many pro-abortion spokespersons and media dupes who assured the nation that almost all late-term abortions were done to preserve the health of the mother or because the fetus had serious abnormalities.
Now, Fitzsimmons said, “I lied through my teeth.” And that most late-term abortions were done for the same reason as early abortions–because women wanted to end pregnancies.41 -
\"multiple prohibited substances\" wrote:
Interesting thing here, to me, is that if you go to a fancy Northeast school, you'll likely get something like a liberal arts education.
Whereas if you go to big state U - anywhere - getting anything like a liberal arts education is pretty unlikely. Possible, but more likely you'll major in business, marketing, communication, or a pre-professional degree. You have to make an affirmative push to get one.
If you believe in passing along the culture and knowledge of Western civilization like many conservatives say they do....this trend is not great.
Even as I don’t agree with this entire list (some of these schools are overranked while others are underranked), your kid could do a lot worse than a top 10 school on this list and even a top 20 with significant merit aid or otherwise (especially if your cost to attend Ivy is the whole enchilada). Almost all LACs. Trinity University should be on this list. Their profile is really rising and they give significant merit aid to the right students too. We looked at it, but we didn’t wind up in TX. Trinity is the backup for Rice if you either couldn’t get admitted or could but with no aid. Lots of schools like this and parents and kids who choose accordingly. Like us.
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Moran alert wrote:
Ah yes, Duke is such a bad school
Streets of Durham after 7pm = Road Warrior
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We All Know wrote:
and? wrote:
One of the smartest people I know went to duke over a couple of mid-tier Ivy's.
Because Duke is substantially better than the Ivys in the 21st century. Duke provides an extremely challenging curriculum and graduates truly productive, educated members of society. Ivys naval gaze and argue about gender and micro offenses. No contest.
Guys, come on, this is more cope.
Duke is a top 10 school. It's fantastic.Look at the research output from HYPMS and there's no contest. Look at MD/JD placements.
I understand having political differences with schools (although Duke student body is quite liberal) but that doesn't mean we need to pretend the elite colleges aren't still the pinnacle of academic and research achievement.
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Harambe wrote:
We All Know wrote:
Because Duke is substantially better than the Ivys in the 21st century. Duke provides an extremely challenging curriculum and graduates truly productive, educated members of society. Ivys naval gaze and argue about gender and micro offenses. No contest.
Guys, come on, this is more cope.
Duke is a top 10 school. It's fantastic.Look at the research output from HYPMS and there's no contest. Look at MD/JD placements.
I understand having political differences with schools (although Duke student body is quite liberal) but that doesn't mean we need to pretend the elite colleges aren't still the pinnacle of academic and research achievement.
I find it odd that fans of a sport with quantitative metrics for ranking performance are so willingly looking the other way when presented with quantitative metrics for ranking colleges.
Job and professional school placements are all that matter. As long as the most desired jobs (the major IB, consulting, tech firms, etc.) prioritize HYPS, and the admission rates to top law and med schools are highest from HYPS, I don't see how anyone can argue that other schools are BETTER.
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Harambe wrote:
We All Know wrote:
Because Duke is substantially better than the Ivys in the 21st century. Duke provides an extremely challenging curriculum and graduates truly productive, educated members of society. Ivys naval gaze and argue about gender and micro offenses. No contest.
Guys, come on, this is more cope.
Duke is a top 10 school. It's fantastic.Look at the research output from HYPMS and there's no contest. Look at MD/JD placements.
I understand having political differences with schools (although Duke student body is quite liberal) but that doesn't mean we need to pretend the elite colleges aren't still the pinnacle of academic and research achievement.
Ok, his claim should’ve caveated since 2020 (Covid) rather than the 21st century; you know, when all these Ivies went test optional and embraced grade inflation and wokeism to enhance their DEI optics.
Besides, I don’t really think he means every Ivy, but Duke is, arguably, better than every Ivy League not named HYP. This is accurate.
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Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
Harambe wrote:
Guys, come on, this is more cope.
Duke is a top 10 school. It's fantastic.Look at the research output from HYPMS and there's no contest. Look at MD/JD placements.
I understand having political differences with schools (although Duke student body is quite liberal) but that doesn't mean we need to pretend the elite colleges aren't still the pinnacle of academic and research achievement.
Ok, his claim should’ve caveated since 2020 (Covid) rather than the 21st century; you know, when all these Ivies went test optional and embraced grade inflation and wokeism to enhance their DEI optics.
Besides, I don’t really think he means every Ivy, but Duke is, arguably, better than every Ivy League not named HYP. This is accurate.
Duke is test optional for this cycle. Harvard and Yale are not.
WTF are we even doing here, guys.
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re calling ivies DEI or grade-inflated, you don't know what you're talking about. the admissions process is generally among kids with perfect or near perfect grades and scores. the pouting about diversity or affirmative action is merely trying to come up with how are we going to tiebreak an application pile with endless shiny transcripts from smart kids. and having been in an ivy for a period, there are no "diversity hires" in any sense that would make you happy. the dumbest kid there is a well-prepared grind who knows most of the answers. who would be the smart kid at an ordinary flagship or above average LAC.
and while the grade scale might be set high, they also have the smartest kids in the country. this gets into do you want a curve for the sake of a curve, or should grades reflect quality of work, including relative to some other school. if you dropped your rhetoric half a second, it might occur to you that the densest kid at harvard in a calculus class, who still makes it through the class, after making a math 780 SAT, is probably a B or B+ student in terms of any other place in terms of the quality of their work.
so i can either artificially flunk them to make you happy with the curve being nasty, or perhaps a D since they made it out, or i can give them a B because the quality of work at harvard in that class is probably well beyond State U product. that hmmmm if i gathered a bunch of 1550-1600 SAT kids, there is probably little or no C, D, or F work in a comparative sense. i can either reflect that in my grades or i can be a turd to them just to make crying conservatives happy.
and the irony is on affirmative action and everything like that, including giving white non college a chance at jobs they don't have a degree for, it's "test me for what i know," or "compare me to the rest."
this is really about the GOP's issue with traditional elites or college in general. if you applied your merit ideas to yale for one second you would, as conservatives used to do before they went anti-intellectual for their HS-educated base, see those kids as unusually gifted and perhaps likely to simply do better work.
if DEI or affirmative action were ruining the ivies you would see SATs free falling. they aren't. what is changing is the demography of precisely which very smart kid gets in. but one is usually about as smart as the next. or they wouldn't be on bubble at the ivy.
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Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
You get out of school what you put into it. There’s nothing special about an Ivy anymore. The top UC schools (where I went) are just as good as the elite schools, especially in the biological fields and engineering, but even they are way too liberal. Like you. Ga Tech is a great school, by way of just one example. So is the University of Florida or UNC. There are many, many options. Only an idiot would pay full price for a Northeast school.
Not entirely true. For most people UNC, UF are outstanding options; however, for truly high achievers it's not as clear cut.
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likewise, the whines about test optional, it's a 3.94 unweighted average school. we're talking a single B+ or A-.
i personally think scores equalize school vs. school on that, but i could also see this as their middle finger to the courts. that we control our own admissions office. that if you are going to axe affirmative action, then we will give some 4.0 kid from Inner City High, who leaves out their very good 1480 SAT, the same shake as the next kid on his seemingly perfect application. "buzz off, it's our school."
now, in reality the numbers seem to reflect demography is changing back to more white and asian kids. but test optional gives them some power to play with who gets in.
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Harambe wrote:
Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
Ok, his claim should’ve caveated since 2020 (Covid) rather than the 21st century; you know, when all these Ivies went test optional and embraced grade inflation and wokeism to enhance their DEI optics.
Besides, I don’t really think he means every Ivy, but Duke is, arguably, better than every Ivy League not named HYP. This is accurate.
Duke is test optional for this cycle. Harvard and Yale are not.
WTF are we even doing here, guys.
LOL LOL
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What are even the 34 schools? It's obvious what 8 and then 10 or so are, but that leaves roughly 16 weak schools they're calling "elite".
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If you download the article they're listed. Here's a copy/paste, sorry for the lack of formatting.
Amherst College Bowdoin College Brown University
California Institute of Technology Carleton College Carnegie Mellon University
Columbia University Cornell University Dartmouth College
Duke University Georgetown University Harvard University
Harvey Mudd College Haverford College Johns Hopkins University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology New York University Northwestern University
Pomona College Princeton University Rice University
Stanford University Swarthmore College Tufts University
University of California-Berkeley University of Chicago University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Notre Dame University of Pennsylvania University of Virginia
Vanderbilt University Washington University in St. Louis Williams College
Yale Universit10 -
Harambe wrote:
Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
Ok, his claim should’ve caveated since 2020 (Covid) rather than the 21st century; you know, when all these Ivies went test optional and embraced grade inflation and wokeism to enhance their DEI optics.
Besides, I don’t really think he means every Ivy, but Duke is, arguably, better than every Ivy League not named HYP. This is accurate.
Duke is test optional for this cycle. Harvard and Yale are not.
WTF are we even doing here, guys.
Yeah. Exactly. Plus Dartmouth and Brown are also not test optional this cycle.
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