Nuguse was not an Olympian before Paris. She is an olympian because she participated, not because she made the team. Had she withdrawn, not an Olympian.
Yeah, you have to actually TAKE PART in the Olympics to be considered an Olympian.
No. You don't. The athletes who made the U.S. team in 1980, the year the U.S. boycotted, were called Olympians.
what is a debut marathon? Has not Ms. O’Keefe already debuted with her Trials win? Or does this word have various meanings here?
I think the argument is that after her 1:07 debut in the half marathon (the fastest ever by an American woman), there would have been a lot of interest from race organizers in getting her to debut at the marathon distance in their race. So she could have gotten a six-figure appearance fee plus whatever prize money she would gave earned with a good result. Instead, she chose to debut at the Olympic Trials, where she did win $80K for first place, but that amount was not guaranteed, was not announced until the week before the race, and was still significantly less than she would have gotten by debuting at another marathon. The opportunity cost of debuting at the Trials may have been $50-100K, and starting the Olympic race allows her to be called an Olympian, which enables her to recoup that foregone income in appearance fees in future marathons.
OK that makes more sense logically but in reality her 1:07:42 is tied for the 490th fastest performance all time so I would be surprised if she had received 6 figures to debut. Having said that, the criticism she has received is absurd.
No, I think she also made herself look terrible by knowing she wasn't going to be able to compete or even finish the race and she still lined up even when they spent the money to fly in an alternative that was more ready to race than her. So not only is she not an Olympian but her selfishness took away the opportunity for someone else to actually compete in the race.
That’s true. In addition to the higher appearance fees, which Des said is the main thing, Des and Kara listed other factors justifying O’Keeffe starting the race, including:
—contract bonuses that raise the value of future year contracts
—the opportunity cost of missing out on a six-figure paycheck for a debut marathon (which apparently is more than for subsequent marathons)
—getting the experience of an Olympics under her belt to be ready for the next one
—being selfish. Des owned up to this one—she said elite running is a selfish, individualistic sport, and that it’s ok to look out for #1, because you have to.
Another tidbit is that O’Keeffe didn’t call McClain out to Paris—USATF did.
Honestly, this is noise to me because what I hear is Des and Kara defending a broken system rather than calling out the stupidity and advocating for change that would be in the best interest of the injured athlete, the alternate, the spectators, and the credibility of the sport. Assuming all of the above is true, then what is the purpose ever of having an alternate? I cannot see a reason ever for an athlete to DNS, unless of course they pop a positive drug test, or, like Seidel, can't get a TUE approved in time (I'm guessing that was the deal during the Worlds in Eugene). They could have a compound fracture in a lower extremity, but they might as well stand on the start line with crutches, then toss them down and hop a few yard or two on the good leg to make sure they started the race. Like, where do we draw the line and say, Okay, this is f*cking ludicrous.
Yeah, you have to actually TAKE PART in the Olympics to be considered an Olympian.
No. You don't. The athletes who made the U.S. team in 1980, the year the U.S. boycotted, were called Olympians.
There is a difference between legally (thru a country's decision) not being able to compete and not competing because you got hurt. One is entirely avoidable and one is not.
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No. You don't. The athletes who made the U.S. team in 1980, the year the U.S. boycotted, were called Olympians.
There is a difference between legally (thru a country's decision) not being able to compete and not competing because you got hurt. One is entirely avoidable and one is not.
Regardless, as I said, the boycott athletes were considered Olympians. So the claim that you're not an Olympian unless you compete at the Olympics is simply false.
No. You don't. The athletes who made the U.S. team in 1980, the year the U.S. boycotted, were called Olympians.
They were not Olympians. Henry Rono was on Kenya’s 1976 Olympic team and no one has ever referred to him as an Olympian.
O'Keefe's American. She made the American team at the Trials (Did Kenya even have Olympic trials then, or was their team selected by officials?).
People who make the American team by finishing in the top 3 at the Olympic Trials (and have an Oly qualifying mark) are considered Olympians (see my Don Paige link above for just one example; see Steve Scott's Wikipedia entry for another).
That's why athletes are so eager to finish in the top 3 at the Trials. That's why the competition at the Trials is often so dramatic. That's why the athletes who make the team often get so emotional. It's not because they've earned the chance to become Olympians. It's because they ARE Olympians.
Let me explain something to you. IF I qualify for the US Olympic team, I am an Olympic qualifier. And if my country boycotts the Olympics, and I say I am an Olympian, it doesn’t matter what you think. This is all ridiculous anyway. You would have to be the village idiot to think your opinion matters here. That includes me also. Call yourself an Olympian if you have qualified for the Olympics. Nobody cares. On your side of the argument, let us say that I am elected President of the US on November 5th but I die on December 13th. Then I am a President-elect but you could say I was not President. But if am sworn in and then I step down 2 hours later, I can say I was the President of the US. You’d have to be a moron to care much about this.
You can explain it. Next you can explain that the earth is flat. You can't be an Olymian when there was no US Olympic team that year. You can look up all of the teams and participants.
The US holds championships even in non-Olympic years and non-World championship years. May as well say that the top 3 finishers are Olympians every year.
I think the argument is that after her 1:07 debut in the half marathon (the fastest ever by an American woman), there would have been a lot of interest from race organizers in getting her to debut at the marathon distance in their race. So she could have gotten a six-figure appearance fee plus whatever prize money she would gave earned with a good result. Instead, she chose to debut at the Olympic Trials, where she did win $80K for first place, but that amount was not guaranteed, was not announced until the week before the race, and was still significantly less than she would have gotten by debuting at another marathon. The opportunity cost of debuting at the Trials may have been $50-100K, and starting the Olympic race allows her to be called an Olympian, which enables her to recoup that foregone income in appearance fees in future marathons.
I don't think she would have gotten a six figure appearance fee for a debut marathon off 1:07. Until she's actually gotten a decent marathon under her belt, she's not in that realm.
Going to that line may allow Fiona to call herself an Olympian, but going to that line injured didn't enable future income potential. It damaged it. It was a terrible look, she is clearly not healthy and it was a poor decision. She won't recoup anything without future demonstrations of health and performance.
I hope she does. She was fun, amazing in the trials.
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Ultimately for Fiona the only real value of being able to title herself Olympian is for marketing and contract negotiation purposes. But unless the sponsors offering or extending contracts are complete imbeciles, they're going to see reality and say "We don't care if you label yourself Olympian, we and all of our customers/viewers know the truth, [this] is your actual value to us."
Akin to how building a 830 credit score ultimately doesn't matter to a creditor: Your risk and credit history is what matters to them.
This argument is now 7 pages deep, and it's over a trivial question and everyone refusing to see the forest for the trees. Well done, LR.
I have repeatedly been harsh on Okeeffe and would like to soften my judgement. What she did was shockingly bad but to some extent she is a victim of a corrupt system and this goes far beyond the Olympics. She got caught holding the bag of self interest that is the heart and soul of modern athletics. We are all part of the problem. Fiona I think recompense is a good place to start. Wishing you well.
I consider her sick and in need of help. Everyone that defends her decision is ignoring the elephant in the room. No help for Allie O and she denied denied denied. Everyone knew but we celebrated her success until she finally admitted it. No help for Jordan Hasay and no one in her camp had the balls to do anything until it was too late. No help for Molly Seidel who still has phantom injuries associated with nutrition. Kara and Des both know the situation and won’t even address it while they try to defend the behavior. To not bring it up is allowing it to happen.
Why is the other Fiona thread no longer showing on the front page even though there have been a few responses in the last hour? I find it if I search Fiona but it doesn’t pop up on the first page?
They were not Olympians. Henry Rono was on Kenya’s 1976 Olympic team and no one has ever referred to him as an Olympian.
O'Keefe's American. She made the American team at the Trials (Did Kenya even have Olympic trials then, or was their team selected by officials?).
People who make the American team by finishing in the top 3 at the Olympic Trials (and have an Oly qualifying mark) are considered Olympians (see my Don Paige link above for just one example; see Steve Scott's Wikipedia entry for another).
That's why athletes are so eager to finish in the top 3 at the Trials. That's why the competition at the Trials is often so dramatic. That's why the athletes who make the team often get so emotional. It's not because they've earned the chance to become Olympians. It's because they ARE Olympians.
Buddy, you are full of it. Henry Rono and the Kenyans (including John Ngeno) and the Ethiopians were IN Montreal competing in tune ups (I can prove it if I have to), but they don't consider themselves Olympians.
How can you consider yourself an Olympians if you don't dance in the Olympic Village disco and rub up real close to an Icelandic high jumper?
You are saying because Nick Willis was selected for an Olympic team rather than going through an Olympic trials that he shouldn't be considered an Olympian?
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