The Coming Detransitioning Wave

GD wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

When you’re asleep tonight, if someone broke into your home and gave you a vaginoplasty, would you be angry? Depressed? Would you want that changed and have your dick and balls back?

This is how trans people have felt their whole lives. Their brain doesn’t match their bodies. There are procedures which can help people with these conditions to more closely align their bodies to their brains. Leave it to the patient and their doctor to work out the best course of treatment.

Actually, the earliest sex-reassignment programs closed shop several decades ago after the interventions were shown to be ineffective for resolving distress. Pro-transition activists and queer theory supporters have revived these procedures on political grounds, not on the grounds of evidence. In addition, many people who "consent" to these procedures aren't fully informed about the risk of heart disease, cancer, and even death due to sepsis after major surgeries. Males who are purberty blocked early on will never experience orgasm, and many have insufficient penile tissue to create a "neovagina." In these cases, parts of the colon are used, which increases the risk of the kind of sepsis I mentioned above. A kid in the "Dutch study" used to promote transition for minors died due to this very complication.

People who don't look into this issue may assume that all attempts to ban pediatric transition are fueled by phobia, but the truth is that there is very little rigorous science to support these drastic interventions. In addition, the very concept of gender dysphoria is so vague and unfalsifiable, that nearly anybody can read themselves into it. This is very similar to the repressed memories fiasco in the 1980s, in which therapists convinced countless people (many of them young women) that they had been sadistically sexually abused but simply didn't remember it. Families were ripped apart, people went to prison, etc. Here again, we have a series of vague symptoms with no material basis viewed as incontrovertible evidence of being trans. In this case, the social harm is compounded by medical harm.

This is a culture-bound syndrome; a set of culturally-sanctioned symptoms of distress are read as evidence of a disorder. These types of syndromes tend to be more common in teenage girls and women, probably because females are more intensely "social" and empathetic than males, though most humans can feel others' symptoms. Imagine being in a hot room where somebody passes out. The chance of other people passing out goes way up. There have been outbreaks of sleeping (for years), dancing (until death), and tic-like disorders.

When all of the smoke clears, we're likely to see a lot of lawsuits. Of course, some parents and transitioners will never be able to face the pain that comes with acknowledging that they were victims of a pernicious cult-like ideology that somehow held sway over institutions meant to assuage rather than create suffering. It's horrific.

GD wrote:

4:20 is not that fast wrote:

Instead of me reading a 240 page document, why don’t you extract a few points from it that support your opinions.

Here’s a much shorter article, chock full of stats:

Link:www.reuters.com/investigates/special-r...

Per the report, 10% of transgender minors are receiving hormone treatments, and .8% have undergone “Top” or “Bottom” surgery.

I've read the WPATH report as well as countless research articles on the topic. I'm certainly not going to take a Reuters article as an authoritative source because it's "chock full of stats." If you knew anything abou the US healthcare system, you'd realize that a private and decentralized model makes it nearly impossible to track the actual rates of detransition for this population. The issue is further complicated by the fact that detransitioners are unlikely to revisit the doctors who damaged their bodies, not to mention that some clinics that transition minors or adults refuse to provide detransition services.

If you don't want to read a lengthy document, that's on you, but don't expect people to believe you simply because you posted a news article with pithy talking points to support your view.

GD wrote:

4:20 is not that fast wrote:

Instead of me reading a 240 page document, why don’t you extract a few points from it that support your opinions.

Here’s a much shorter article, chock full of stats:

Link:www.reuters.com/investigates/special-r...

Per the report, 10% of transgender minors are receiving hormone treatments, and .8% have undergone “Top” or “Bottom” surgery.

The other thing is, you're moving the goal posts. First people say that right-wingers are promoting falsehoods about medical procedures conducted on kids. When people show evidence that these things are happening, you claim the number is so low that we shouldn't care. Just how many penis amputations in minors constitute an acceptable number? How many blocked puberties are just fine?

We're also supposed to overlook the resemblances between things labeled as gender dysphoria and prior outbreaks of psychiatric illnesses directed at the body, particularly in teengage girls.

Consider this content from Susan Bordo's 1980s analysis of anorexia (pgs. 155-156 in Unbearable Weight):

"Adolescent anorectics express a characteristic fear of growing up to be mature, sexually developed, and potentially reproductive women. 'I have a deep fear,' says one, 'of having a womanly body, round and fully developed. I want to be tight and muscular and thin."

"As Bruch reports, many anorectics, when children, dreamt and fantasized about growing up to be boys. Some are quite conscious of playing out this fantasy through their anorexia; Adrienne, one of Levenkron's patients, was extremely proud of the growth of facial and body hair that often accompanied anorexia, and especially proud of her 'skinny, hairy arms.'"

"I grab my breasts," says Aimee Liu, "pinching them until they hurt. If only I could eliminate them, cut them off if need be, to become as flat-chested as a child again."

4:20 is not that fast wrote:

GD wrote:

The other thing is, you're moving the goal posts. First people say that right-wingers are promoting falsehoods about medical procedures conducted on kids. When people show evidence that these things are happening, you claim the number is so low that we shouldn't care. Just how many penis amputations in minors constitute an acceptable number? How many blocked puberties are just fine?

We're also supposed to overlook the resemblances between things labeled as gender dysphoria and prior outbreaks of psychiatric illnesses directed at the body, particularly in teengage girls.

Consider this content from Susan Bordo's 1980s analysis of anorexia (pgs. 155-156 in Unbearable Weight):

"Adolescent anorectics express a characteristic fear of growing up to be mature, sexually developed, and potentially reproductive women. 'I have a deep fear,' says one, 'of having a womanly body, round and fully developed. I want to be tight and muscular and thin."

"As Bruch reports, many anorectics, when children, dreamt and fantasized about growing up to be boys. Some are quite conscious of playing out this fantasy through their anorexia; Adrienne, one of Levenkron's patients, was extremely proud of the growth of facial and body hair that often accompanied anorexia, and especially proud of her 'skinny, hairy arms.'"

"I grab my breasts," says Aimee Liu, "pinching them until they hurt. If only I could eliminate them, cut them off if need be, to become as flat-chested as a child again."

The premise of this thread is that there will be a wave of lawsuits from people detransitioning so it does matter that only a tiny fraction of transgender minors are receiving surgery.

One thing that is being overlooked in this thread is that the parents are the responsible party and not the psychiatrist or medical provider.

GD wrote:

4:20 is not that fast wrote:

The premise of this thread is that there will be a wave of lawsuits from people detransitioning so it does matter that only a tiny fraction of transgender minors are receiving surgery.

One thing that is being overlooked in this thread is that the parents are the responsible party and not the psychiatrist or medical provider.

Really? You sincerely believe that medical providers aren't responsible for harming children because their parents consented? Parents don't force doctors to prescribe blockers and hormones. They don't lay a scapel down on a teen girl's chest and remove healthy breasts. Doctors do this.

The other thing is, I'm about 100% sure that the Reuters estimate of hormones and surgery is an undercount. The wave of lawsuits is already beginning. Vulnerable adults have also experienced this form of medical malpractice, so it's not going to be just minors. Even "non-vulnerable" adults may come after providers if they develop cancer and heart disease. As the evidence mounts, the lawsuits will increase. Stay tuned.

pinkle wrote:

GD wrote:

Really? You sincerely believe that medical providers aren't responsible for harming children because their parents consented? Parents don't force doctors to prescribe blockers and hormones. They don't lay a scapel down on a teen girl's chest and remove healthy breasts. Doctors do this.

The other thing is, I'm about 100% sure that the Reuters estimate of hormones and surgery is an undercount. The wave of lawsuits is already beginning. Vulnerable adults have also experienced this form of medical malpractice, so it's not going to be just minors. Even "non-vulnerable" adults may come after providers if they develop cancer and heart disease. As the evidence mounts, the lawsuits will increase. Stay tuned.

Hilarious to see transphobes spouting on a topic that doesn’t affect their own life choices at all but purportedly for the benefit of the impacted trans children that they are convinced are mentally ill and delusional anyway.

Proverbial fox advocating policy decisions for the safety of chickens.

RunRagged wrote:

Diggity wrote:

The only reason for you to be concerned about the genital configuration of any other human being is if they are your sexual partner. Your obsession with the private parts of people who are total strangers to you is creepy, weird, and none of your business.

Really? You think women should not be concerned with the health and wellbeing - including the gential configuration, sexual health and wellbeing - of our children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, the kids we teach and care for, and children and young people in general?

Pregnant women customarily get sonograms during the second trimester that reveal the genital configurations of the offspring we're carrying - offspring we haven't met yet and who will never be our sexual partners. To you, that's "creepy, weird and none of our business" - and it's none of the business of the sonogram techs, our HCPs or our partners, either. Please explain how.

Please fill me on on why it's wrong for parents, guardians, older siblings, HCPs and teachers to instruct girls about how to use a toilet, properly wipe themselves to avoid urinary tract infections, care for themselves during menstruation and monitor their cervical mucous so as to know when they are ovulating/fertile?

Please explain why it's wrong for parents, guadians, older siblings, HCPs, teachers to instruct boys about how to care for their foreskins, check their testicles and groins for lumps that shouldn't be there, protect their testicles from injury and irritation during sports, and avoid and treat the fungal rashes and chafing that boys and men often get in their groins from sports and working out?

pinkle wrote:

GD wrote:

Really? You sincerely believe that medical providers aren't responsible for harming children because their parents consented? Parents don't force doctors to prescribe blockers and hormones. They don't lay a scapel down on a teen girl's chest and remove healthy breasts. Doctors do this.

The other thing is, I'm about 100% sure that the Reuters estimate of hormones and surgery is an undercount. The wave of lawsuits is already beginning. Vulnerable adults have also experienced this form of medical malpractice, so it's not going to be just minors. Even "non-vulnerable" adults may come after providers if they develop cancer and heart disease. As the evidence mounts, the lawsuits will increase. Stay tuned.

Hilarious to see transphobes spouting on a topic that doesn’t affect their own life choices at all but purportedly for the benefit of the impacted trans children that they are convinced are mentally ill and delusional anyway.

Proverbial fox advocating policy decisions for the safety of chickens.