I have asked my self and others why dopers get away with things, and the answers are mostly: micro dosing and undetectable designer drugs. But at least micro dosing should be able to detect, f.ex if the athletes are using the night timespan (11pm -7 am) to avoid testing -what if every top athlete had to have their mobiles on the whole night (but on silence for no unnecessary disturbance of sleep), and Wada had a program that could over ride this silence with a sort of loud sirens calling sound (my home country has that kind of technology for reaching the inhabitants in crisis) -the testers could then call during the nights and get their tests, and even detect the micro dosing…
How do you know Grijalva isn't doping, his progression is way more sus than Katir's; but since he's essentially treated like an American by the LRC fanboys he gets a pass right? His race at Worlds Eugene 22 was sus/af and no one said anything.
Nah, Grijalva has been a freak of nature since high school. He came out alive compared to his other freak of nature competitors because he trained under Mike Smith. The Collegiate racing system fried him from competing well at Tokyo (he was also dealing with an injury in the early spring if I recall from that year).
In HS he doubled back from the 1600 2 hours earlier and almost beat a fresh Cooper Teare in the 3200. He has always had raw turnover showcased in longer distance races, what I’d call a tier lower than Cole Hocker’s. It would surprise you how truly deep the NCAA is. Eugene wasn’t much of a surprise coming from someone who has raced him frequently. Cooper and Cole were looking like medal threats in the 1500 that year too, but both ended up hurt.
Mo Katir is very suspicious. And these whereabouts failures don’t help his case at all. A similar situation as Adel Mechaal’s suspension (who by the way was coached by Jama Aden, when that took place).
Yeah, proving my point perfectly, making excuses and explaining away the progression of one athlete and making the progression of the other suspect because you don't have first hand knowledge of it. Did you follow Katir in HS? All the reasons you state as to why Grijalva isn't doping are 100& subjective on YOUR part because you don't believe he is doping. There is no difference between the 2 other than the difference you create in your head to justify your opinion. My point is not to suggest Grijalva is a doper, it is clearly to suggest that calling Katir a doper, based on a suspicious progression is moronic and only proves the familiarity and/or likeability bias that exists here.
Katir's progression somewhat mirrors Grant's up until 2019. Then he improves an average of 8 seconds per year for 3 straight years. He regresses in 2022 (presumably due to injury/niggles) then takes a massive leap in 2023. That's when the alarm bells should have gone off.
Something to keep in mind is when you're operating closer to absolute human limits of performance, it's not a linear improvement curve, it's Logarithmic*. It's exponentially more difficult each second below 7:30. So even those 3 seconds of improvement between his 2021 and 2023 is damn near impossible. You'd have better luck getting 40% gains on the S&P year-over-year for 10 straight years.
With that said though, do I think Grant is a 7:25 guy clean? Questionable. Grant Fisher 3k progression: 2013 - 8:32.65 - 16 2016 - 7:50.06 - 19 2018 - 7:48.56 - 21 2019 - 7:42.62 - 22 2020 - 7:39.99 - 23 2021 - 7:37.21 - 24 2022 - 7:28.48 - 25 2023 - 7:25.47 - 26
Fixed it for ya. Also I think it is sorta dumb to think that certain training conditions wouldn't give step ups in improvement besides doping. Graduating college, new training group/philosophy, training consistently at altitude... All of these things may not just marginally improve, but improve drastically. I look at Katir's progression and while the time drops are crazy, that is just the reality of how athletes reach record time regardless of whether that person is doping. 2020 to 2021 looks more sus anyways in comparison to 2022 to 2023:
I have never been more certain that an athlete is being persecuted. Insiders such as myself know that Katir's army of letsrun haters pooled their money together and bribed WADA to lie on their behalf. But the saddest part is that the brojos lack the courage to unveil this blatant conspiracy in their front page article. Letsrun.com = fake news!
Can someone explain the testing process? Meaning, if you are a pro like Katir, do you have to give notice to where you will be all the time? And if so, can they randomly show up literally whenever they want? Do they give any warning? I honestly dont know so dont make fun of me.
If he was going to race today or tomorrow, I think someone said that, then whoever is giving him ped’s is really sloppy. Endogenous rbc boosting is incredibly hard to detect, and lasts way longer than the window of detection so its really hard to get caught. There is no need to get caught at a competition. Thats really sloppy.
Can someone explain the testing process? Meaning, if you are a pro like Katir, do you have to give notice to where you will be all the time? And if so, can they randomly show up literally whenever they want? Do they give any warning? I honestly dont know so dont make fun of me.
If he was going to race today or tomorrow, I think someone said that, then whoever is giving him ped’s is really sloppy. Endogenous rbc boosting is incredibly hard to detect, and lasts way longer than the window of detection so its really hard to get caught. There is no need to get caught at a competition. Thats really sloppy.
You have to give an hour every day when you are available for the tester. They can randomly show up any day in that hour. It seems like if you don't respond, they will often courtesy text you even though that is not necessary. If you are going to a training camp or holiday you put that in too. Randolph Ross for instance was dumb, and got one of his missed tests because he didn't update his whereabouts for competing at NCAAs. Katir has never tested positive at a competition, and seems confident about his ability to pass in-competition testing. The whereabouts suggest he is less confident in his regimen beating the test when he has no notice OR he is highly unprofessional/reckless.
Yeah, proving my point perfectly, making excuses and explaining away the progression of one athlete and making the progression of the other suspect because you don't have first hand knowledge of it. Did you follow Katir in HS? All the reasons you state as to why Grijalva isn't doping are 100& subjective on YOUR part because you don't believe he is doping. There is no difference between the 2 other than the difference you create in your head to justify your opinion. My point is not to suggest Grijalva is a doper, it is clearly to suggest that calling Katir a doper, based on a suspicious progression is moronic and only proves the familiarity and/or likeability bias that exists here.
Wait did grijalva also have a whereabouts failure?
TBH, even if he was clean (which I don't believe is the case), its good that he's getting banned. If it's your JOB to provide accurate whereabouts information, be there for your window, follow the procedures, etc., and you can't manage to do it 3 separate times, you don't deserve to be called a professional.
If there genuinely is a case where the doping agency screws up and gives you an undeserved strike, wouldn't you want to address that BEFORE you manage to get another one and get yourself banned? Like, if I got a second strike for a reason I thought was undeserved, I would at least contact the doping agency and try to reason with them to get that strike removed. I might also want to publicize the mistake the agency made, just to show that there are, in fact, cases where the agency screws up. Why would you try to contest a "screwed up" 2nd strike AFTER you've already gotten the third and a ban? Super suspicious and frankly he's showing his hand by making this argument.
This my thought exactly. Perhaps there isn't a procedure to remove a false whereabouts strike until afterwards? That doesn't make sense to me, but there are weirder things in this world. My guess is that there is a way to remove a false whereabouts strike, but it's not worth the legal wrangling especially if you are likely to lose or you are clean and don't miss tests. Being he's now facing a ban, a legal fight with a 1% chance of winning is still better than taking the ban without a fight.
Also, anyone remember WADA's Operation Fennec? Two of the most famous current Triathletes in the world had long training stints in remote regions of Morocco last year. Previously, they trained in the Sierra Nevada. One of which (KB) scored one of the highest vo2 max ever recorded immediately afterwards.
Article from nrk.no - Vebjørn Rodal commentary.(google translate)In a clever way, several Moroccan-born athletes have sneaked away from the doping testers. NRK's athletics expert Vebjørn Rodal asks that it be cleaned up.The W...
Its not the 3 sec pb that got people wondering….like you said its 2020-21..
Is that much different than fisher going from 13:02 to 12:47? Nico going from 13:15 indoors to 12:57? Ritz going from 13:16 to 12:56? Wheating by goi n from 3:38 to 3:31? Murphy going from 1:54 to 1:50 and then 1:45?And so on. For a lot of elite athletes there is that one big breakthrough year where they take a huge step forward. The difference between them and the also fans is that one more big step. Maybe they are all doping. Maybe a lot just had some issues(injuries, lack of the right opportunities) and then everything lined up. It is a bit more believable when talking about a sub 23 year old versus some 27 year old.
Nah, Grijalva has been a freak of nature since high school. He came out alive compared to his other freak of nature competitors because he trained under Mike Smith. The Collegiate racing system fried him from competing well at Tokyo (he was also dealing with an injury in the early spring if I recall from that year).
In HS he doubled back from the 1600 2 hours earlier and almost beat a fresh Cooper Teare in the 3200. He has always had raw turnover showcased in longer distance races, what I’d call a tier lower than Cole Hocker’s. It would surprise you how truly deep the NCAA is. Eugene wasn’t much of a surprise coming from someone who has raced him frequently. Cooper and Cole were looking like medal threats in the 1500 that year too, but both ended up hurt.
Mo Katir is very suspicious. And these whereabouts failures don’t help his case at all. A similar situation as Adel Mechaal’s suspension (who by the way was coached by Jama Aden, when that took place).
Yeah, proving my point perfectly, making excuses and explaining away the progression of one athlete and making the progression of the other suspect because you don't have first hand knowledge of it. Did you follow Katir in HS? All the reasons you state as to why Grijalva isn't doping are 100& subjective on YOUR part because you don't believe he is doping. There is no difference between the 2 other than the difference you create in your head to justify your opinion. My point is not to suggest Grijalva is a doper, it is clearly to suggest that calling Katir a doper, based on a suspicious progression is moronic and only proves the familiarity and/or likeability bias that exists here.
That is true. Point is valid. Grijalva could be doping or what is popular, “microdosing”. So could a ton of other athletes. Katir is a pretty easy target for people since no one was familiar with him. People are familiar with Grijalva and all the other recent top NCAA athletes who have flourished towards the top recently.
The suspicions sit with some unnamed Pros who are racing against him, and generally speaking, those pros know the juicy bits more than anyone else.
Part of your job as a professional T&F athlete is to be available 100% of the time for drug testing. If you are a clean athlete you will never miss a drug test, if you are a cheater you will play hide and seek when it benefits you. End of story
According to our world-renowned sports attorney, if an athlete has been informed that they are part of the RTP, they must file quarterly whereabouts updates that provide information about their training locations, competitions, regularly scheduled activities, overnight locations, and a daily 60-minute window where they will be available for testing. This information must be updated on a timely basis when an athlete’s schedule changes.
Doping Control Officers are required to make a reasonable attempt to locate you for testing. This includes knocking or ringing the doorbell at regular intervals if you are being tested at your residence or checking the gym, locker rooms, meeting rooms, and treatment rooms if you are being tested during your training time. An important note from our sports attorney: the Doping Control Officer is not required to call you or text you during your 60-minute time slot.
Although athletes are allowed to challenge all three violations if they are later charged with a whereabouts anti-doping violation, evidence to make your case successful becomes more difficult to locate as time passes. Testing officials are given the benefit of the doubt because of the importance of ensuring clean sport. As an athlete, it can be challenging to prove that your own negligence wasn’t the cause of the whereabouts failure.
===================== I am curious as to how many of you 'regular people' would think u could provide all that info correctly over a period of 5 years or so for your regular life activities.
To me it would be an insane violation of my privacy and independence as a human being - but I also understand that because of all the dopers and cheaters, Pros have been forced to give up all semblance of a normal life.
Personally I would rather never be a Pro if this was the cost. The money and the 'fame' are not even remotely worth that.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
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