Coevett: Keino coming out of hospital and running an Olympic final = biggest doper of all time.
Also Coevett: Ovett coming out of hospital and running an Olympic final = brave athlete that makes Brits proud.
Hi Hoad. A difference being Ovett was the defending champion and came last in 1:55 or something, and Keino had never beaten Ryan and won by the biggest margin in history and in a massive pb that he never got close to again, and which some consider to have been the sea-level equivalent of 3:22. And you're calling other people stupid?
You are paranoid. I am not hoad.
The only person who thinks Keino's time was a sea-level equivalent of 3:22 is you. At least I never heard anyone else come up with such a preposterous theory.
I don't think it would be argued Coe was necessarily better than Kipketer. But you overlook one important fact in Coe's favour. His 1981 world record was nearly a 2 second improvement on the record that preceded his efforts. That is a stratospheric improvement. Kipketer was only able to take 0.6 of a second off Coe's record some 16 years later.
Well...Coe was, at the time, 1.71 seconds faster than the second-faster performer in history (Juantorena), but his 1981 world record was an improvement of .60 on the previous world record, his own 1:42.33.
How much should very small margins matter with respect to times? If Cruz had run 1:41.71 instead of 1:41.77 in his fabulous 1984 season, how would this influence how he would be ranked in lists such as this one?
The critical improvement for Coe is over the best that any other ran in his era, not the improvement on his own time. 1:43.4 reduced to 1:41.7 was massive.
But, yes - small margins can matter, if it had been sufficient for Cruz to be the world record-holder and not second best.
Hi Hoad. A difference being Ovett was the defending champion and came last in 1:55 or something, and Keino had never beaten Ryan and won by the biggest margin in history and in a massive pb that he never got close to again, and which some consider to have been the sea-level equivalent of 3:22. And you're calling other people stupid?
Also a difference that Keino didn’t in fact come out of a Hospital like you keep claiming. He came out of his bed where doctors had been instructing him to rest. And 3:34 at Mexico City altitude is not considered a 3:22 by anyone with a brain. Kenyans run 3:32 at altitude nearly every year.
This post was edited 11 seconds after it was posted.
Hi Hoad. A difference being Ovett was the defending champion and came last in 1:55 or something, and Keino had never beaten Ryan and won by the biggest margin in history and in a massive pb that he never got close to again, and which some consider to have been the sea-level equivalent of 3:22. And you're calling other people stupid?
Also a difference that Keino didn’t in fact come out of a Hospital like you keep claiming. He came out of his bed where doctors had been instructing him to rest. And 3:34 at Mexico City altitude is not considered a 3:22 by anyone with a brain. Kenyans run 3:32 at altitude nearly every year.
Please.
For sure Keino was four seconds faster than El Guerouj. Two generations before him. While sick. Imagine what he could have done while 100% fit on a current track with modern shoes? Sub 3:20? In Mexico he already has run the 10k, two 5ks and two 1500s. 3:18 while fresh?
Coevett just realised that Keino by far is the greatest runner ever.
You remind me of people who have conversations with themselves.
For sure, you can't accept (OK, you can't understand too) the most easy conclusions.
Two of his contradicting statements of recent days:
- You can't come close to a current WR without doping - I don't think Coe has doped
Both can't be true, but sticking to both of them: Armdumb in his element.
You never stop going around that pointless mulberry bush - while misrepresenting what I say. Do you think anybody on this thread is the slightest bit interested in your personal obsession?
Hi Hoad. A difference being Ovett was the defending champion and came last in 1:55 or something, and Keino had never beaten Ryan and won by the biggest margin in history and in a massive pb that he never got close to again, and which some consider to have been the sea-level equivalent of 3:22. And you're calling other people stupid?
Also a difference that Keino didn’t in fact come out of a Hospital like you keep claiming. He came out of his bed where doctors had been instructing him to rest. And 3:34 at Mexico City altitude is not considered a 3:22 by anyone with a brain. Kenyans run 3:32 at altitude nearly every year.
But not in 1968. No one was.
Keino had been unwell before the race - a fact - and then ran a time second only to Ryun's world record at sea-level, after a series of other races in which he had struggled, and he never got close to that time again at sea-level. If it hadn't happened you couldn't have scripted it. I think he took something before that race without a doubt. It completely defies credibility.
Also a difference that Keino didn’t in fact come out of a Hospital like you keep claiming. He came out of his bed where doctors had been instructing him to rest. And 3:34 at Mexico City altitude is not considered a 3:22 by anyone with a brain. Kenyans run 3:32 at altitude nearly every year.
Please.
For sure Keino was four seconds faster than El Guerouj. Two generations before him. While sick. Imagine what he could have done while 100% fit on a current track with modern shoes? Sub 3:20? In Mexico he already has run the 10k, two 5ks and two 1500s. 3:18 while fresh?
Coevett just realised that Keino by far is the greatest runner ever.
Keino's time at altitude was arguably faster than Ryun's wr at sea level when converted. That would have made Keino at least 3-4 seconds faster than he ever ran at sea level. And he did this after requiring medical treatment and following a series of championship races in which he had shown difficulties. It is absolutely a performance that can't be trusted to be clean. The wilful blindness of this place knows no limits.
Keino had been unwell before the race - a fact - and then ran a time second only to Ryun's world record at sea-level, after a series of other races in which he had struggled, and he never got close to that time again at sea-level. If it hadn't happened you couldn't have scripted it. I think he took something before that race without a doubt. It completely defies credibility.
The guy wasn’t exactly following wavelight in the Diamond league circuit trying to set PBs before and after the Olympics.He could run really fast at altitude and did. His record speaks for itself. He didn’t exactly have the Monaco 1500 to chase those elusive PBs.
Keino had been unwell before the race - a fact - and then ran a time second only to Ryun's world record at sea-level, after a series of other races in which he had struggled, and he never got close to that time again at sea-level. If it hadn't happened you couldn't have scripted it. I think he took something before that race without a doubt. It completely defies credibility.
The guy wasn’t exactly following wavelight in the Diamond league circuit trying to set PBs before and after the Olympics.He could run really fast at altitude and did. His record speaks for itself. He didn’t exactly have the Monaco 1500 to chase those elusive PBs.
You must be a lot younger than I realised. 3:34.9 was a fantastic time in the late 60's - as was Ryun's record of 3:33.1. Even Keino's next best time of 3:36 was a great time in that era. You are erroneously relating times in the late 60's to what runners would only achieve a generation later.
Keino had a lengthy career, from '62 to '72. He had plenty of opportunities to run his fastest possible times - and we saw that with his 3k wr in '65. Runners didn't need wavelight or Monaco tracks to run their fastest. But for Keino to come off a series of championship races and health issues at Mexico and win the 1500 final at altitude in a time that when converted was faster than Ryun's sea level record - which had been far beyond Keino's reach - is ludicrous. Everyone else was dying in that race. It is quite unbelievable that in a ten year career his fastest time over the 1500 - by far - was set at altitude after a series of championship races. He never got near it again - not at altitude and not at sea level. If he had run at Munich in '72 the way he had run at Mexico he would have run 3:32-33, not 3:34.9. Impossible in that era. He was not and never could be a 3:32 (or even 3.33) runner over 1500. No one was near it in the late 60's. That would have made him a good second faster than Ryun, who owned him at sea-level.
For sure Keino was four seconds faster than El Guerouj. Two generations before him. While sick. Imagine what he could have done while 100% fit on a current track with modern shoes? Sub 3:20? In Mexico he already has run the 10k, two 5ks and two 1500s. 3:18 while fresh?
Coevett just realised that Keino by far is the greatest runner ever.
Keino's time at altitude was arguably faster than Ryun's wr at sea level when converted. That would have made Keino at least 3-4 seconds faster than he ever ran at sea level. And he did this after requiring medical treatment and following a series of championship races in which he had shown difficulties. It is absolutely a performance that can't be trusted to be clean. The wilful blindness of this place knows no limits.
You call it "wilfull blindness" every time people don't agree with you. You are not always right. Just accept that.
Keino's time at altitude was arguably faster than Ryun's wr at sea level when converted. That would have made Keino at least 3-4 seconds faster than he ever ran at sea level. And he did this after requiring medical treatment and following a series of championship races in which he had shown difficulties. It is absolutely a performance that can't be trusted to be clean. The wilful blindness of this place knows no limits.
You call it "wilfull blindness" every time people don't agree with you. You are not always right. Just accept that.
Wilful blindness is not mere disagreement; it is refusal to see what stares you in the face, because it is too difficult for those who wish to believe in a clean sport to acknowledge.
For sure, you can't accept (OK, you can't understand too) the most easy conclusions.
Two of his contradicting statements of recent days:
- You can't come close to a current WR without doping - I don't think Coe has doped
Both can't be true, but sticking to both of them: Armdumb in his element.
You never stop going around that pointless mulberry bush - while misrepresenting what I say. Do you think anybody on this thread is the slightest bit interested in your personal obsession?
I'm not misrepresenting what you have said in any way.
The good thing: anybody who is insane enough to read this just realises which kind of mad poster you really are.
This is exactly what you have written many times now (including the last few days):
- You can't come close to a current WR without doping - I don't think Coe has doped
Both is from you, a pure fact. And you're just stupid enough to not see that these two can't be true both (OK, it also can be true that you THINK that you are not stupid, but...).
You agreed that Kipketer's 1:42.67 is the stronger mark compared to Rudisha's 1:40.91.
After it was told you how ludicrious this is, your reply was:
Armdumb: So why are all the indoor records slower than the outdoor records? I see you don't really follow the sport.
Because it was run indoor, it must be stronger - this was your "reasoning" (a true Dumbstrong logic).
Just an info for you, Armdumb: for sure 1:40.91 is the stronger mark. Kipketer in Paris '97 was in wonderful form - but he was even stronger in August, when he has run 1:41.24 and 1:41.11. These are stronger marks than his already very strong indoor WR. Rudisha improved Kipketer's WR by two tenths - it's the stronger mark compared to 1:42.67.
You agreed that Kipketer's 1:42.67 is the stronger mark compared to Rudisha's 1:40.91.
After it was told you how ludicrious this is, your reply was:
Armdumb: So why are all the indoor records slower than the outdoor records? I see you don't really follow the sport.
Because it was run indoor, it must be stronger - this was your "reasoning" (a true Dumbstrong logic).
Just an info for you, Armdumb: for sure 1:40.91 is the stronger mark. Kipketer in Paris '97 was in wonderful form - but he was even stronger in August, when he has run 1:41.24 and 1:41.11. These are stronger marks than his already very strong indoor WR. Rudisha improved Kipketer's WR by two tenths - it's the stronger mark compared to 1:42.67.
I'm about as big an Ovett fan as anyone, but, no, he's not a top 10 in the 800m. He had the talent but just didn't focus enough on this distance. Same for his 5k career - oh, what could have been...
Glad Snell is getting some love (although #2 is probably too high).
What 1955 said about Ovett.
I looked up World Athletics and the points awarded for Kipketer's indoor record and Rudisha's outdoor record. I was surprised that Kipketer gets 1305 points and Rudisha only 1301.
You agreed that Kipketer's 1:42.67 is the stronger mark compared to Rudisha's 1:40.91.
After it was told you how ludicrious this is, your reply was:
Armdumb: So why are all the indoor records slower than the outdoor records? I see you don't really follow the sport.
Because it was run indoor, it must be stronger - this was your "reasoning" (a true Dumbstrong logic).
Just an info for you, Armdumb: for sure 1:40.91 is the stronger mark. Kipketer in Paris '97 was in wonderful form - but he was even stronger in August, when he has run 1:41.24 and 1:41.11. These are stronger marks than his already very strong indoor WR. Rudisha improved Kipketer's WR by two tenths - it's the stronger mark compared to 1:42.67.
Yes. You are quite mad.
It's his level. Nothing more - that's exactly his level.
He had a teammate sacrifice himself and rabbit the race. His fastest mile was at altitude as well. Things lined up for him and it became an opportunity to run fast. Ryun was coming off mono and wasn’t going to be well-suited for altitude. He’s admitted as much.
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