JAKOB MF INGEBRIGTSEN

But dont forget,hes allegedly clean,allegedly had a bad cold,and still beat katir,and others who are full on dopers.........allegedly

Amazing performance, but definitely not comparable to El G 4:44 in the late 90’s. If anyone has doubts put him on a crappy track and hand him spikes from the 90’s and we’ll likely see maybe 4:48-4:50

OK but to make it fair you would also need to provide him unlimited access to the EPO warehouse, and with no EPO test even invented yet.

More EPO.

Who says he doesn’t have access to EPO

Loool, yeah he sucks so much. Soon 23 and only have two WC golds in the 1500. Good, but not great, just like El G's 2000 pr.

But El G is known for very good 5000m performances with a 12:48 and 12:52 and finally a win at Athens 5000m albeit with an advantageous TUE for asthma drug advair.

El G didn't really run much 3k to be honest. It seemed like his 7:23 outdoor was like the only 1 or 2 3k races he ever ran, yet could still run so fast? Imagine if El G actually run it a little more often to get the hang of it and maybe a few race specific sessions? El G thrashed Daniel Komen at the mile and 2k, and there is every reason for me to believe he can do that for another 1k at least.

Hey but didn't you remember El G once mentioned he wanted to take every record from 1500m to 10000m? He blatantly told the media he has the ability to run 25:59 after the Athens Olympics when he won double gold no? He was 29 at a turning point transiting to longer distances. If he had continued and didn't have respiratory illness he would have blasted the 10k and 5k records out of the books from 29-32, the ages when Mo Farah peaked at the 5k and 10k (albeit on suspected drugs).

Alas the 1500m and mile took so much energy from him by 29 yrs old that he was too ill to continue. He breathed too much dust, sand, and other particulate matter into his respiratory tract thus inflaming it irreversibly over time, what a pity.

El G had a considerably very short career in fact. Which athlete retires at 29 these days when it's known to be prime age for success at 5k and 10k

I'm with you on this one. I put El G on some totem pole that cannot be toppled. That's how much I show mad respect for El G. No disrespect for Jakob though, it's all cool. Jakob would be miles behind EL G if he were running in his era.

Typo, I meant to write 'smoke weed', not weeding in gardening! Sorry about that lol.....

Okay let me define gambling that becomes harmful. I call that pathological gambling, the dangerously and perilously addictive kind you know? The ones where you have to dabble in lots of illegal activities like drugs and porn and child trafficking in order to finance your addictive gambling habit? In general if you take gambling to the streets as well as to online blackjack and poker your brain and next your body will be screwed in successive fashion. It always starts with the brain first, the defect in the body starts with a distortion and distorted process in the brain which spreads like a cancer to the cell and organ.

I do concede that there are the rare few who are able to gamble without being affected by addiction. Their brain works a little differently. I call them professional stock/currency/options traders. It's their profession, they have been through a learning journey and have certain rules to dabble in such dangerous trading that can turn addictive.

I wouldn't consider the professional trader trading for his ricebowl to be addictive.

Of course it´s difficult to impress you. If it has been one of the athletes you fancy it would possibly have been easier?

You don´t mentioned the 3000m so I suppose you agree that Jakob already has this (unbeatable) WR in his pocket?

I have written in another post that Jakob stated yesterday that he had targeted the easiest WR/ WBs first and that he now will go after the shorter distancer which seems to be completely reasonable. I don´t think he cares much about you and your likes (Bad Wigins and Co.) demanding an attempt on one of the "real" WRs.

Kipyegon: When did she get her first WRs?

How many international medals did the superior Kipyegon have at age 22?

Do you know without checking it?

I’ve got some disjointed thoughts on the record, its significance and Jakob vs. El Guerrouj.

First, approximate splits from yesterday’s race based off the video:

First 1500 - 3:33.8

First mile - 3:49.4

Last 1500 - 3:31.7

Last mile - 3:47.3

So he ran the last mile in about what Nuguse ran at Millrose and about what Coe ran for a WR in 1981, after the first 390.6m in ~55.8. It doesn’t take a genius to conclude that this was an all-time, mind-boggling performance similar to El Guerrouj’s 3:26.00 and Daniel Komen’s 7:20.67. Sure, that doesn’t mean he can break 3:26, but he’s relatively better at 2k-3k and between his 2-mile and 2K records I think it’s safe to say he can smash Komen’s legendary mark.

Of course, the narrative on Komen’s 7:20.67 has already begun to shift from “most untouchable record, never to be broken” to “Well, the 3k isn’t an Olympic distance so how strong is it really?” I think there’s some cognitive dissonance going on, whereby people are unable to accept that Ingebrigtsen is matching or exceeding the performances of guys who have been almost deified as legends over the past 25 years. In their inability to accept that, they turn to rationalizing Ingebrigtsen’s record-breaking by attributing it to shoes and wavelight, coming up with bogus conversions in an attempt to discount Jakob’s achievements. While new spikes and wavelight undoubtedly help to some degree, it’s a totally useless exercise to retroactively convert El Guerrouj down to 4:41, just as it’s useless to convert Jim Ryun down to 3:25 like some have done over the years.

Having said that, I want to note that I think people are missing the single biggest advantage Jakob had in running 4:43.13 vs. El Guerrouj’s 4:44.79: he was chasing a 4:44.79 WR instead of a 4:47.88 WR. Of course the goal, expectations and pacing targets are going to be higher for Jakob; El Guerrouj smashed the WR by over 3 seconds, and who knows if he could have run 2 seconds faster if he needed to in order to break the WR.

In terms of absolute performance vs. the clock, it’s fair to say Jakob is now operating in the absolute highest, most exclusive tier. He still has a long way to go before he’s challenging El Guerrouj as the mid-distance GOAT, since El Guerrouj has 5 outdoor global championship 1500 golds and has held the 1500 and mile WRs for 25 years. But in my mind he has now eclipsed greats such as Komen (only 1 outdoor medal) and Lagat (no period of dominance like Jakob has shown the last two years).

Becoming more disjointed:

- To the poster who sarcastically said he’d just broken the WR for 1854m: very cool, and I think if you ran under 4:20 then we can discuss how that compares with the 1500 and 2000m records.

- This Khamis guy is a frickin hoot! I hope we start hearing more from him and his interesting theories.

- It’s hard to be both unbeatable and likable, and man, I wish Jakob wouldn’t do his stupid “what’s the big deal?” shrug into the camera after running an awesome race. If he smiled and threw up the #1 finger that he likes so much, high-fived some competitors before posing in front of the clock and signing some autographs, he wouldn’t be as hard for me to root for. I’ve heard it said that he relishes being the villain, but I’m always skeptical of whether that’s really true or just something one tries to convince themselves of as a defense mechanism. Can you imagine how hard it must be to grow up as an Ingebrigtsen boy and not have your entire self-worth become wrapped up with your running performance?—so I wonder if Jakob is truly hyper-confident, or if on some level he’s deeply insecure. I’m not sure he’s the most well adjusted guy out there.

- Nobody should be calling El Guerrouj “El EPO” when discussing El G vs. Jakob, because Jakob is dominating a drug plagued endurance sport in a way that’s suspicious in and of itself.

-Don’t assume this year won’t be looked back on as arguably the best year of Jakob’s prime. I’m not claiming it will be, but I think some people have it in their minds that he’ll continue to improve year after year until he’s 27, which is highly unlikely. It’s all smooth sailing until it isn’t, and it will be interesting to see how Jakob handles any big setbacks or dips in performance.

-Here’s a much less grainy video of El Guerrouj’s 2k record in which you can see that he does shut it down a few strides from the line, but we’re talking maybe 2 tenths of a second:

Pardon me for the stupidly long post.

Good post. I will add some of my thoughts, not that anyone asked.

- Agree with everything regarding the record. 4:43.13 is extremely impressive and the people trying to downplay it because it’s a rarely run distance are being petty. I think we can (and should) acknowledge that El G could have run faster than he did without taking anything away from Jakob. Greats from the past deserve respect, but we also need to accept new additions to the pantheon like Jakob and Cheptegei.

- I don’t understand why Jakob shrugging at the camera bothers you. How is that worse than holding a finger up, or yelling, or shushing, or any other post-win reaction/celebration? I’ll leave the psychoanalysis to others but he seems like a pretty normal guy outside of the obsession with winning. And in any case, Mondo and Stewy like him which is good enough for me lol

- Agree on drug comments. Athletes were ahead of testers 30 years ago and the same is true today. It’s just part of the game.

- “This could be X’s best year” can be said about anyone. Maybe he’ll keep improving until he’s 27, maybe he’ll get in a car wreck and have his career cut short like Ngeny. It’s impossible to know, but barring disaster, there’s no reason to assume he won’t be at the same level (or better) next year. If an athlete is stagnating/regressing in their early 20s something is wrong.

Agreed.

I do like most of this your stupidly long post, but you take some chances here, and must therefore be prepared “to pay” a little for that:

1. Your comments about Jakob’s personality: Some years ago quite a few commentators and fans of the chess sport said somewhat the same about chess champion Magnus Carlsen that you now propose about Jakob. And now, as the years has gone by, I think nobody longer thinks these personalities analyses (about Magnus) can be valid; meaning: You can speculate about Jakob, but you will soon find your self in this same position, because his personality seems far to complex to be narrowed down to the simple things you do… On the other hand I will not hold this against you, for Jakob has been outspoken and somewhat provocative….

2. Your doping comparison of El Guerrouj and Jakob: Fair enough -they can both be dirty or both clean (my guesses on the last).

3. Jakob’s “stupid shrug”. Well I can understand why you don’t like this shrug (and maybe base some of your criticisms about Jakob’s personality on this), but are you sure you have gotten this right?! -Because he did the same thing after the Budapest 5000m (exactly the same shrug as after the 2000m), and we know he didn’t regard his 5000m win as “what’s the big deal?”…

2/10? 4/100 - at most.

After a great performance it's always so easy to assume that they'll easily take down another record. But for all we know he gets hurt and never touches these times again, or just can't remain this fit. Jakob can't keep this up forever and will have to choose what he focuses on wisely. Does he want as many Olympic medals as possible, does he want to be GOAT in the 1500, or the 5k, does he want to take double gold in a major championship? You can't do that and keep trying to break WRs in the same seasons. He's got another 4 years on top.

at this speed he was going 7.06 m/s. You’re saying that with some older model of spikes he would be a whole 35-50 meters behind? Complete nonsense

S-tier 100m, mile

A-tier 1500m, 5k even if the 1500 might be harder than the mile

B-tier - 800m

The other sprints are to the 100m what the 10k is to the 5k/1500 - a factor of X longer and 1/X as exciting

3k, 2k 2 mile are just gimmicks

I don't think it quite work this way....at least not to the extent you think. Jakob broke Komen's 2 mile WR by 4.51 seconds!! 7:58.61 to 7:54.10 is a quantum leap. Is it fair to retrospectively say Jakob can run 7:51 if Komen's record was 7:52 instead of 7:58?