I think this is partly why I can't jump on the anti-Shelby bandwagon. But if I had to bet money, I would go with the tests that say she did dope. I am not a doping denier... it is all over this sport.
However, there are actually five scenarios that always exist...
1) she intentionally doped (most likely)
2) she accidentally doped by consuming tainted supplements (somewhat likely according to Travis Tygart)
3) she was given something by someone in her team but she didn't know (unlikely)
4) she was sabotaged by someone else (very unlikely)
5) she didn't dope and the test was wrong (the least likely option)
Shelbo discarded option 2, because her supplements tested negative in January, and the ones she used up between December and January didn't lead to any positive test before. Further she only claimed to use vitamins and minerals, unlikely to be contaminated by steroids. I would move option 2 to option 4 (highly unlikely).
Where/when did Tygart say it's "somewhat likely" in this case? Or do you mean generally somewhat likely?
This might be my favorite letsrun post of all time " I emailed asking that they ignore your email, saying it was from a well known internet troll on Reddit 😂"
Please keep your comments respectful. The locals probably do not know of her history and just get geeked that an elite from Iowa signed up to run. I have asked that they scrub her results since she is currently serving a ban for performance enhancing drugs and asked that the second-place woman be officially recognized as the winner and awarded any prize money given to the victor.
And what was second place? 10 minutes back? who cares...even in her "pre-drug" shape she'd destroy them.
Yes she would - and that’s the point. A convicted drug doper has stolen the glory from another athlete who otherwise would be celebrating a great personal accomplishment. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Houlihan has literally been sanctioned through the official channels set up to specifically address doping. Her transgression has officially met the criteria required in order to slap her with a ban. I for one will not be celebrating any race she places within. She is making a mockery of the sport.
Progression can show more in context than just looking at times. Maclean was super under trained and (I think) missed some time in college but still showed crazy talent at times. Also, she's very fast and speed oriented and it shows because of her limits. Someone like Coburn trained at CU at altitude with Wetmore and gradually pushing her aerobic limits for years. Heather got a big boost from better training and actual training partners but still has weaknesses. Remember "Shelbo800" was somewhat similar to Heather but definitely more successful in college. In some ways her progression makes sense but her 5k progression unreal. This isn't a college guy growing into his body and adding 20 miles a week after freshman year and dropping a huge PR. Shelby was already training hard and competing for years until the "magic" Bowerman training turned her into a world-beater. Her times are beyond the limits of all but the most talented female runners ever. It's almost like she had the Maclean jump into the low 4:00s and then another even larger jump to world class.
And what was second place? 10 minutes back? who cares...even in her "pre-drug" shape she'd destroy them.
Yes she would - and that’s the point. A convicted drug doper has stolen the glory from another athlete who otherwise would be celebrating a great personal accomplishment. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Houlihan has literally been sanctioned through the official channels set up to specifically address doping. Her transgression has officially met the criteria required in order to slap her with a ban. I for one will not be celebrating any race she places within. She is making a mockery of the sport.
She must be done with her drug suspension and not a bad start on her comeback. She ran 17:02 in the Terrapin 5K for a 14th place overall and winning overall female. Never heard how long she was suspended, but if she is runnin...
I really want to know if Flanagan would publicly congratulate her for this result. Honestly at this point I think most Nike/BTC people, even the ones who defended her in 2021, have quietly backed away from their stance and would acknowledge her guilt behind closed doors. Why? Because at the time, admitting her guilt puts them in a vulnerable position, like all of BTC could be doping. Defending her = defending themselves at the time. Now that most people have accepted Shelby’s guilt, I’m willing to bet they’d be much less willing to stick their neck out for her. Therefore I doubt Flanagan will congratulate her, but I’d be interested to see if she did.
I also wonder: is it likely, or even probable, this result is a doped one? Do they test banned athletes during their suspension? If I’m a convicted doper with the intention to return to competition after serving a 4 year ban, I must be thinking: “well, at least I’ll have 4 straight years to dope to the gills in my training without having to calculate when I might get tested in or out of competition”. After I return, I could go clean, but I’d have had the opportunity to train for 4 straight years “to the gills”. Not exactly fair if that’s the case.
I really want to know if Flanagan would publicly congratulate her for this result. Honestly at this point I think most Nike/BTC people, even the ones who defended her in 2021, have quietly backed away from their stance and would acknowledge her guilt behind closed doors. Why? Because at the time, admitting her guilt puts them in a vulnerable position, like all of BTC could be doping. Defending her = defending themselves at the time. Now that most people have accepted Shelby’s guilt, I’m willing to bet they’d be much less willing to stick their neck out for her. Therefore I doubt Flanagan will congratulate her, but I’d be interested to see if she did.
I also wonder: is it likely, or even probable, this result is a doped one? Do they test banned athletes during their suspension? If I’m a convicted doper with the intention to return to competition after serving a 4 year ban, I must be thinking: “well, at least I’ll have 4 straight years to dope to the gills in my training without having to calculate when I might get tested in or out of competition”. After I return, I could go clean, but I’d have had the opportunity to train for 4 straight years “to the gills”. Not exactly fair if that’s the case.
To piggy-back on your inquisitiveness:
Were here racing shoes "street-legal"? There are lots of ways to cheat, you know.
Do I care she ran/runs? No. Do I feel bad for people she beat? Unless it's qualifying for something or for $$$ then of course not - 99% of them are running against a clock.
What I do think is tragic is that this kind of seems like it's all she has. Beer mile - meh. Rocking up to a smalltown 10km and beating up on everyone - meh. Like is there nothing else in life that interests her/she can do? Because you know she's not running a sub 31min 10km (even if the course is a little short) without doing some serious training.
It's the proverbial "grab both shoulders and give a firm shake" situation no? She chose her path and part of that path was doing something she shouldn't have. She ended up with a f--kload of something in her she couldn't even give a remotely plausible reason for how it got there (the whole story even 2 years + on seems even funnier and more absurd each time I am reminded about it) and got suspended. That was the hand you played Shelby and you got away with it for a while with good effect, but my god just find another interest in life for your own sake? Very sad.
I also wonder: is it likely, or even probable, this result is a doped one? Do they test banned athletes during their suspension? If I’m a convicted doper with the intention to return to competition after serving a 4 year ban, I must be thinking: “well, at least I’ll have 4 straight years to dope to the gills in my training without having to calculate when I might get tested in or out of competition”. After I return, I could go clean, but I’d have had the opportunity to train for 4 straight years “to the gills”. Not exactly fair if that’s the case.
Maybe that was her play all along. Gaming the system by intentionally getting caught cheating to have 4 years in banishment to train her doped ass off.
After looking through posts on this thread I had a thought. If all you smart posters who have so much visceral towards Shelby put that energy towards other things, global warming, starvation and the actors strike might be solved...and your probably secretly hot for her
Houlihan was suspect even before the positive drug test. The change in her appearance was so blatant and many of us commented on it at the time.
Regarding progression: A nonlinear progression is not a sure sign of drug use. Take Hassan, for instance. She comes to the U.S. to join Nike, and Salazar slowly turns her into a 5k runner. Then she loses a lot of weight. It took a few years but the results were dramatic. Why do I think Hassan is clean? No one knows for sure. But, she has been competing on the world stage for 10 years. She competes frequently, and at many distances. As Craig Engels said, he's never seen anyone tested as often as Hassan.
But this is where I differ from posters like Astro. If a runner hasn't tested positive, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially to those who compete for years and years without a testing positive.
Houlihan was suspect even before the positive drug test. The change in her appearance was so blatant and many of us commented on it at the time.
Regarding progression: A nonlinear progression is not a sure sign of drug use. Take Hassan, for instance. She comes to the U.S. to join Nike, and Salazar slowly turns her into a 5k runner. Then she loses a lot of weight. It took a few years but the results were dramatic. Why do I think Hassan is clean? No one knows for sure. But, she has been competing on the world stage for 10 years. She competes frequently, and at many distances. As Craig Engels said, he's never seen anyone tested as often as Hassan.
But this is where I differ from posters like Astro. If a runner hasn't tested positive, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially to those who compete for years and years without a testing positive.
Thanks for sharing that with me, Oscar. You outta jail yet?
She’s following the guidelines of her ban. Shes also been tested multiple times this year. Seems like a lot of people need to chill the hell out.
I am going to be the first to say I’m super ignorant to the “guidelines” of suspensions. I genuinely didn’t know if they test people during their ban, so that’s why I put that out there. It seems like an obvious thing they should do, right? BTW, could you care to show me a source that I can reference for those guidelines so I can enlighten myself?
also curious how you might know she is following her ban guidelines and has been tested multiple times?