Coaches who coach both genders in the same sport, or event group, are in a no win situation with this.
Title IX says you can't punish someone for an allegation... but female (and male) athletes will quit the program if someone on the team has committed sexual harassment/assault.
The only person guaranteed to lose in these situations are the coaches.
Coaches who coach both genders in the same sport, or event group, are in a no win situation with this.
Title IX says you can't punish someone for an allegation... but female (and male) athletes will quit the program if someone on the team has committed sexual harassment/assault.
The only person guaranteed to lose in these situations are the coaches.
Come again? It doesn’t look like the coach lost here, just the falsely accused young man. I can appreciate the, as it were, “business decision” aspect of what he did (lose one athlete who was already away from the team vs lose multiple athletes) but the choices faced by the coach weren’t (a) lose and (b) lose, they were (a) do the right thing and (b) do the easy thing. He chose (b) and no one should feel sorry for him for taking the easy way out.
This article contains some info that I haven't seen in the thread.
- 5th generation Haverford student - suing for failure to follow Title 9 protocols, defamation, emotional distress - Title IX coordinator may have tried to help the athlete rejoin the team.
The runner feels, "I went from being a respected leader on a team that I have been a part of ever since my first semester on campus to a persona non grata amongst my teammates.”
Even the headline of that article (“what he says was a false rape rumor”) is a bit cagey and indicative of the post-#MeToo attitude. It wasn’t just him who said it was false, but the alleged victim and, in almost as many words, the Title IX coordinator as well. (She can’t outright say it was false of course but can say there’s no evidence, and did so.) Journalists have to pretend to be careful how they phrase things, but I think if the supposed victim says it didn’t happen but other outside parties are behaving as if it did, you can go ahead and just call it a “false rape rumor,” full stop.
I sure would like to hear from the coach or one of the captains on this, even if only through a joint statement. It’s all well and good to say there MUST be two sides to the story, but if no one’s going to step up and tell it, I assume what we’re hearing is accurate and they done goofed, to use the nicest and most internet-y description of their massive ethical failure.
Even the headline of that article (“what he says was a false rape rumor”) is a bit cagey and indicative of the post-#MeToo attitude. It wasn’t just him who said it was false, but the alleged victim and, in almost as many words, the Title IX coordinator as well. (She can’t outright say it was false of course but can say there’s no evidence, and did so.) Journalists have to pretend to be careful how they phrase things, but I think if the supposed victim says it didn’t happen but other outside parties are behaving as if it did, you can go ahead and just call it a “false rape rumor,” full stop.
I sure would like to hear from the coach or one of the captains on this, even if only through a joint statement. It’s all well and good to say there MUST be two sides to the story, but if no one’s going to step up and tell it, I assume what we’re hearing is accurate and they done goofed, to use the nicest and most internet-y description of their massive ethical failure.
This is false. Nowhere does it say that the victim says the accusation is false. You’re making that up or you can’t read very well. This magazine article is a loose interpretation of the facts stated in the court papers but even the article doesn’t say what you claim it does.
No complaint was brought. There can be a lot of reasons for that, but you make it sound as if there was a rumored victim and she denied anything happened. That’s not accurate. I’m guessing the guys on the team know pretty well what kind of person this guy is.
Callgrandma is right. The article reads, "The suit alleges that the school reached out to the rumored victim and that she denied anything happened between them." It's all based on the suit. Still, I'm willing to bet this part is true. It's in writing and, if false, would result in the opposition drilling the athlete. That's why the coach and captains shifted their reasoning to from 'assault' to 'negative team environment.'
I'm curious if he is suing for damages now that he can't rejoin the team.
Even the headline of that article (“what he says was a false rape rumor”) is a bit cagey and indicative of the post-#MeToo attitude. It wasn’t just him who said it was false, but the alleged victim and, in almost as many words, the Title IX coordinator as well. (She can’t outright say it was false of course but can say there’s no evidence, and did so.) Journalists have to pretend to be careful how they phrase things, but I think if the supposed victim says it didn’t happen but other outside parties are behaving as if it did, you can go ahead and just call it a “false rape rumor,” full stop.
I sure would like to hear from the coach or one of the captains on this, even if only through a joint statement. It’s all well and good to say there MUST be two sides to the story, but if no one’s going to step up and tell it, I assume what we’re hearing is accurate and they done goofed, to use the nicest and most internet-y description of their massive ethical failure.
This is false. Nowhere does it say that the victim says the accusation is false. You’re making that up or you can’t read very well. This magazine article is a loose interpretation of the facts stated in the court papers but even the article doesn’t say what you claim it does.
No complaint was brought. There can be a lot of reasons for that, but you make it sound as if there was a rumored victim and she denied anything happened. That’s not accurate. I’m guessing the guys on the team know pretty well what kind of person this guy is.
I was gonna say, I’m pretty sure the victim has not said that the accusation was false. They just didn’t file officially with the college, which in no way is an admission of a false accusation.
Callgrandma is right. The article reads, "The suit alleges that the school reached out to the rumored victim and that she denied anything happened between them." It's all based on the suit. Still, I'm willing to bet this part is true. It's in writing and, if false, would result in the opposition drilling the athlete. That's why the coach and captains shifted their reasoning to from 'assault' to 'negative team environment.'
I'm curious if he is suing for damages now that he can't rejoin the team.
I think this kid is going to land on his feet. He’s the scion of what appears to be a wealthy family, a family that has sent five generations to Haverford and whose grandmother has no issues dialing up the university President. It sucks if he was unjustly cancelled, but he’s going to be ok in the long run IF he’s not a total jerk and a sex abuser, and sadly probably even if he is….
Colleges have an obligation to investigate. Even if a victim doesn’t want to file a complaint a school can file a complaint if they view the behavior to be dangerous to the school. It’s all about them protecting themselves, in instances of rape, SA, or assault. They file a complaints without any survivors coming forward.
Well if the rape accusation is true the college legally has to investigate it according to title IX law and their policies. If the accusation was fake then Doe was the target of gender based harassment. The school is in a total bind from what the complaint says.
This post was edited 26 seconds after it was posted.
Coaches who coach both genders in the same sport, or event group, are in a no win situation with this.
Title IX says you can't punish someone for an allegation... but female (and male) athletes will quit the program if someone on the team has committed sexual harassment/assault.
The only person guaranteed to lose in these situations are the coaches.
You are correct. It's super hard when both the men's and women's teams are basically one team.
But what the adults have to do in a situation like this is use it as a teaching moment.
"When the allegation arose, he was asked to step back from the team as we investigated. Nothing was found. He's back on the team. All procedures have been followed." Then if people threaten to quit, you use it as a teaching moment. "Hey I know you are very unhappy about this but we live in a country of laws and one where there is a presumption of innocence. All Title IX allegations, have to be followed very closely."
If they quit, they at least learn that mob rule isn't supposed to exist in the US.
And this probably should be a teaching moment for the alleged (or made up) victim. A key part of the article is this, "The suit alleges that the school reached out to the rumored victim and that she denied anything happened between them."
So if that's true. The whole thing is a joke. If she simply didnt want to cooperate as it's too traumatic, then she needs to be told, "Hey I know it can be difficult to report things like this and that's your right but if you don't cooperate we can't suspend or punish someone based simply on a rumor. That's 3rd world type stuff. We are a nation of laws where people are presumed innocent.."
Callgrandma is right. The article reads, "The suit alleges that the school reached out to the rumored victim and that she denied anything happened between them." It's all based on the suit. Still, I'm willing to bet this part is true. It's in writing and, if false, would result in the opposition drilling the athlete. That's why the coach and captains shifted their reasoning to from 'assault' to 'negative team environment.'
I'm curious if he is suing for damages now that he can't rejoin the team.
This is actually kind of funny. You’ve basically just said, callgrandma is right, but in another more accurate way callgrandma is wrong.
But your later plan really should settle down all the doubters. If was not the case that the alleged victim confirmed nothing happened, the school would have argued that and it would have been noted as a disputed fact in the order, I’d guarantee it. Some people on here are so desperate to be contrarian in the face of pretty solid facts. Oh, there COULD be a million reasons she didn’t bring a complaint! Yea, but what would be the number one most likely reason, which also happens to be claimed as the reason for it by the person most affected by the situation as it stands, and which reason has not been refuted by anyone? Sometimes it’s OK to admit that you’ve got the real reason and that you can stop speculating.
Most people who have spent their high school and college years on teams had someone on a team along the way that displayed a pattern of terrible behavior on the verge of being actionable but not necessarily visible to the coach. Anyone who hasn't seen that was probably the person with questionable behavior. These accusations likely gave the others on the team the avenue to broach the subject with the coach without seeming petty. As the process worked out there were likely additional discussions about past behavior. A team is not a court of law so there was possibly a lot of hearsay and examples of things he said in the past but no real evidence.
I'm not inclined to believe this athlete is a victim here and the school and team have done reasonably well to limit his exposure online so as to not damage his future after he graduates from a very good school. As a team, at least from the outside, Haverford has always seemed pretty inclusive. It is a large team with wide ranging athletic abilities from NCAA champions to guys who wouldn't make the top 7 on mid-pack teams in their conference. That inclusivity and size of the team leads me to side with the "mob".
Spot on. Coaches, especially 80 yr old coaches, have no clue about these dynamics based on their own observations.
To be honest, I have witnessed a well regarded person, with NO prior questionable behavior, be cancelled after a lone unsubstantiated allegation, but far more often, there has been a long history of well known bad/questionable behavior never reported until one day something happens and then the flood gates open.
So you are saying if we had a coach that didn’t like individuals from a particular protected category (race, religion, etc.) we could bar them. Sounds like a load of crap to me.
Do WOM, you wrote “TBH, I have witnessed a well regarded person, with NO prior questionable behavior, be cancelled after a lone unsubstantiated allegation”. Then, later you suggest that no one should worry about this guy bc he’s apparently from a wealthy family.
Would it be accurate to say that you’re good with innocent people getting screwed over bc other people in past have been guilty but got away with their misdeeds?
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