It's not as much about litigation as it is about catastrophic health emergencies and being able to locate contact and health information quickly. There are bound to be health emergencies when you've got a mass of people in one place, and insurance companies have a formula for figuring out the risk. Having one's name/address/emergency contact, etc. readily available can be extremely helpful in an emergency situation.
I mean sure, the race can point to the waiver that participants sign to try wiggle out of potential lawsuits ("hah, you signed a waiver saying we're not liable for anything"), but health emergencies are the primary concern (and litigation arising from the care & treatment situations).
Among other things, it would be unfortunate if Matt Choi collapsed with a significant medical condition and the hospital Matt was transferred to was under the faulty assumption that Matt was Eric Lee, etc. etc.
There is a place for all that info on the back of most race bibs.
The risk calculated by insurance companies isn't going to change with one runner switching out a bib with another runner.
Do you have multiple examples for these incidents happening? There are millions of race finishes each year in the US. Surely, if this is a problem, examples are in the 100s.
Not all races do that. And not all runners fill them out.
Give me 37 examples of races which have space for emergency details on their bibs, with a 100% completion rate. And the race director has to be called Gary.
I will absolutely not have any diminished thoughts about a person's time on the clock based on them not signing up and using a friend's bib who did sign up but can't/isn't running. So what.
The time on the clock is what it is. That's not the issue. He could have run a strava sub-3 hr marathon and it would be the same. But to try to make it "official" by borrowing a bib then posting that on social medial so the official time is now disqualified and unofficial, makes no sense. Why bother?
Sometimes i wonder if he bought his IG followers. There are plenty of former ncaa champs that dont have nearly as much. Katelyn Touhy, Allie Ostrander, etc
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
What reasons are there? Most events I've seen do allow transfers up to a week or two before the event as things change and it allows others to run in sold out events.
Really, MOST events allow transfers? Which ones?
The Army Ten Miler is only major race I'm aware of that does. They allow bib transfers up to about 5 weeks from the race.
This might be more a UK/Europe thing. The local HM with about 15k participants allows transfers up to 5 weeks before (thought they allowed it closer to the date). Great North Run (HM 60k participants) does. Manchester and Edinburgh allow transfers. The only UK one I can find ona short search that doesn't is London.
European. Berlin doesn't allow. Valencia and Amsterdam do.
if you are going to do something like this, don't post it on social media. just run the race and keep quite.
LOL you don't follow very many "influencers" I guess. They would never do anything and keep quite. I am sure the whole reason he ran it was JUST so he could post about it.
I can overlook one misspelling of "quiet," but not two.
There is a place for all that info on the back of most race bibs.
The risk calculated by insurance companies isn't going to change with one runner switching out a bib with another runner.
Do you have multiple examples for these incidents happening? There are millions of race finishes each year in the US. Surely, if this is a problem, examples are in the 100s.
Dude, I'm not defending the no race bib transfer policy, or chastising bandits. I don't think this situation is a big deal, nor do I generally think banditing is horrible with a few exceptions like the college idiot who bandited a high school state championship meet.
Anyone who happens to be at the race can sue the event, not just registered waiver signing participants. A random spectator that slips and falls on the sidewalk. A hungover bar patron that walks into the bike pacer.
HOWEVER, having correct participant information is important in emergency situations. You're purposely being dense if you're going to argue this.
If you know that people are going to transfer bibs to others for good reasons (didn't train/got injured/can't make it anymore etc) then you're actually making it harder to get correct participant information by banning all transfers.
For example, in that anecdote earlier of someone who died running under someone else's bib if they allowed transfers the correct information would be there no problem. The problem only exists because they banned legal transfers. I've transferred my place in the UK and just had to stick in the other person's email on the sign up page and it was done.
The only people I can think of who benefit from no transfers is the race organisers who can plan for less participants than they sold because of attrition which is just greedy when it's so easy with online registration and platforms to allow transfers and they can even charge £10/£20 or dollar equivalent for the privilege of doing so.
Dude, I'm not defending the no race bib transfer policy, or chastising bandits. I don't think this situation is a big deal, nor do I generally think banditing is horrible with a few exceptions like the college idiot who bandited a high school state championship meet.
Anyone who happens to be at the race can sue the event, not just registered waiver signing participants. A random spectator that slips and falls on the sidewalk. A hungover bar patron that walks into the bike pacer.
HOWEVER, having correct participant information is important in emergency situations. You're purposely being dense if you're going to argue this.
If you know that people are going to transfer bibs to others for good reasons (didn't train/got injured/can't make it anymore etc) then you're actually making it harder to get correct participant information by banning all transfers.
For example, in that anecdote earlier of someone who died running under someone else's bib if they allowed transfers the correct information would be there no problem. The problem only exists because they banned legal transfers. I've transferred my place in the UK and just had to stick in the other person's email on the sign up page and it was done.
The only people I can think of who benefit from no transfers is the race organisers who can plan for less participants than they sold because of attrition which is just greedy when it's so easy with online registration and platforms to allow transfers and they can even charge £10/£20 or dollar equivalent for the privilege of doing so.
This. The only reason for races not to allow transfers is $$$
With the brain trust on this thread, not one of you could come up with a single example of a running race where someone using someone else's bib sued someone or sued the race organizers. Nor could anyone come up with an instance where a runner wearing someone else's bib had a medical emergency that led to them receiving incorrect medical aid because emergency personnel did not know. With tens, maybe hundreds of millions of runners over the years, no one could come up with a single example.
Sometimes i wonder if he bought his IG followers. There are plenty of former ncaa champs that dont have nearly as much. Katelyn Touhy, Allie Ostrander, etc
He is an influencer or whatever. Touhy and Ostrander are real athletics. Those who can't have to sing and dance like peacocks for attention.
The fact that anyone like this guy has any sort of following is a huge failure by real coaches and actual elite runners to not better promote themselves.
In a sport defined by objective measures there's no reason a bunch of the marginal OTQ runners that complain about lack of money in the sport couldn't displace these average idiots and build their own personal brands with a little bit of effort into content creation.
The fact that anyone like this guy has any sort of following is a huge failure by real coaches and actual elite runners to not better promote themselves.
In a sport defined by objective measures there's no reason a bunch of the marginal OTQ runners that complain about lack of money in the sport couldn't displace these average idiots and build their own personal brands with a little bit of effort into content creation.
at face value I'm inclined to agree but I think the issue is a misunderstanding of what people are following him for because there are essentially two different realms of running:
1) the people that practice it and follow it as a sport (track & field/marathon runners)
2) the people that do it as a hobby or for personal fitness
the reason people follow guys like him is because its relatable. He's closer to the general population than a pro runner is, but still fast enough to seem impressive to beginners. He also dumbs it way down - not a lot of jargon like tempo and threshold that hobbyists aren't interested in. They don't care about running as a sport, its just exercise
There is a place for all that info on the back of most race bibs.
The risk calculated by insurance companies isn't going to change with one runner switching out a bib with another runner.
Do you have multiple examples for these incidents happening? There are millions of race finishes each year in the US. Surely, if this is a problem, examples are in the 100s.
Not all races do that. And not all runners fill them out.
Give me 37 examples of races which have space for emergency details on their bibs, with a 100% completion rate. And the race director has to be called Gary.
Most have it on their entry details and it goes to the master First Aid file or timing file, easily accessible. You wouldn't want to collapse and they think you are 7 months pregnant would you? Or maybe you are.
The thing is an actual fast person's content could be just as relatable and more compelling from the hobby/personal fitness standpoint.
There's no reason a successful influencer should be more relatable than an elite athlete. The influencer is actually less like an average person than an unsponsored elite athlete because they don't work -they're effectively a pro-athlete that still sucks at running despite having the time and resources of a pro.
If someone is running reasonably fast without a big contract they are stilling doing all this stuff around an actual job -that journey in itself offers something interesting.
I also think regular people would be really interested to see that elite runners do the same stuff regular runners do just a little faster and longer.
Simplify the language around training and share valuable insight. From a quick glance at Matt Choi's insta a lot of the stuff he says is so dumbed down that it's straight up incorrect. A well informed person trying to gain followers could even specialize in dunking on these people with better info and use that an attack vector for engagement.
Just gotta be willing to play the game and be cringe.
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