Coe 81 vs Kipketer 97 vs Rudisha 2012 - Who wins in a perfectly paced race?

Why did you feel you needed to show me that race? I discuss details of the race often. Did you read all my post on this thread? S. Coe never raced sub-51 first 400m of a championship style 800m race after 1978 european championship. If that race is your evidence S. Coe could have beaten D. Rudisha and W. Kipketer in their prime, you do not really believe S. Coe could have beaten the two best 800m runners ever.

About 15 + years ago I was watching the London marathon about 1/2 mile from the finish. I thought that looks like Kip Keino but it can't be. I shouted out 'come on Kip Keino!' he turned round and waved with a big gap-toothed smile on his face!

Hands down Rudisha wins this race when they are all in their prime. Kipketer takes it out hard, Rudisha and Coe follow. Rudisha takes over at 600,Kipketer goes with, Coe falls off pace. Rudisha finishes strong, Coe kicks down a fading Kipketer over the final 50 meters.

I don't understand why it is assumed that Rudisha was lacking in endurance. Is it just because he doesn't have a 1500 time to his name? I mean, he did train in Kenya with other Kenyans and under the tutelage of Brother Colm O'Connell, correct?

So Coe in pedestrian fields (with often glacially slow paces) where he's allowed to get the lead can hold/pull away from inferior competition? Not surprising. I think the question is against far superior competition can he go by Rudisha/Kipketer the last lap (specifically last 200 or 100) and win. He failed at this miserably vs. Ovett and Cruz in 1980 and 1984, so it's a legitimate question. Unless you really think Coe is going to control a race with Rudisha and Kipketer. More likely he is not going to have the benefit of a 54-second first lap (instead a 49) or a bunch of 47/1:44 men failing to hold off his surges to get the lead at 300 or 200 to go.

Please link me to your actual scientific evidence that Lance responded more strongly to performance enhancing drugs then all of his competitors. Thanks. No, him winning is not proof.

2:19 1000m not that promising

Rudisha, Coe, Kipketer in that order.

but if we somehow had a time machine to make this happen, I don't want any damn pacers. I want a race. And i think, without the pacers, that Rudisha could, at this point in history, beat anyone, period. But I think that Kipketer would go out too hard ot go with Rudisha and tire just enough for Coe to pick him off.

Rudisha would break those guys by 700m imo

For me, Rudisha is the greatest ever but in a championship race with all the greats, he’d probably lead from the gun and the winner would be whoever was on his shoulder with 100 to go. Given the way they all ran their big finals, my guess is that would be Cruz (1984 edition). He’d have no faith in his kick against Coe, Kipketer or Snell and would stick to Rudisha like glue, benefit from drafting and beat him by half a stride. 😉

Coe and Kipketer would be a couple of metres back, out in lanes 3 and 4, finishing fastest but will have run way too wide on the bends.

I can tell you how the 1500 a week later pans out, too😉.

By the way, the 1500 outcome depends upon whether Bayi gets in the final.

The comparisons between Coe and Rudisha and Kipketer based in their times and what they would be comfortable running at the 400 and 600 is misleading. If Coe were a contemporary of Rudisha's he would be faster than the Coe of 1981; conversely if Rudisha were a contemporary of Coe's he would be slower than the Rudisha of 2012. Same for Kipketer. To argue otherwise is to suggest that if these runners competed in different eras - the '30's, the '50s, the '60' or '70's they would be effectively running the same times as they actually recorded. That would be 1.41 or thereabouts - in 1954, '64, or '74. The history of the sport shows otherwise. Runners of later generations are faster - for a whole bunch of reasons - but they aren't necessarily better - or runners who can't make an Olympic final today are better than Herb Elliott.

15 or 30 years difference give Rudisha and Kipketer an advantage that would not exist if they were contemporaries. One of those advantages is that they never had to face each other - or a runner like the 1981 Coe, who ran almost as fast as they did decades earlier.

You’re right that Coe was so far ahead of his time in the 800 that he dominated his contemporaries like Steve Ovett and Joaquin Cruz in championship 800s from 1978-1984! Oh wait.

Rudisha

kipkeeter

lord coe

Coe =pompous English elitist (his father is worse)

Rudisha kick coes you know what

You've really lost the usual cool facade in this thread - you must have posters of Kipketer and Rudisha on your walls. Most rational observers would say that 1:41.7 was ahead of its time in 1981, given that nobody had ever ran faster than 1:43.5, and only 10 people had ran faster than 1:44.5. Further, that it certainly wasn't because of new shoe tech or track surface. He had one championships to show it in Moscow and blew it from a combination of nerves and the two East Germans working as a team to block him (they also tried to block Ovett, but Ovett knew how to deal with that). Just like Kipketer blew it in 2000 and 2004. Maybe he just couldn't handle the pressure, and that's why he made the strange decision to switch allegiance to Denmark, thereby causing him to miss out on the 1996 Games where he would have been overwhelming favourite. He knew that the burden of expectations from his fellow Kenyans would have been too much for him?

Thank heavens for Rudisha though, otherwise Kipketer would still have the WR, and it would just be another obvious unbeatable WR from that era like El G's.

Some mistakes Coevett:

- someone had already run sub 1:43.5
- not 10 but 20 had already run faster than 1:44.5
- nobody has blocked Coe and Ovett in the 80 final

Can you possibly explain your opinion here. Like I respect it but I want to understand it.

Rudishas PR race - key splits - 49.28, 1.14.30 at 600m

Kipketers PR race - key splits - 49.2 (49.00 for pacemaker), 1.14.4(ht) at 600m.

DR closes in 26.59, Kipketer in 26.7(ht).In their lifetime PR's "shadow v shadow" Rudisha doesn't even come to "breaking" Kipketer.

I'll still maintain that in terms of actual physiological difficulty, Kipketers Zurich run is the most superior of them all. How on earth he runs 1.41.24 off 48.2 at the bell is beyond me because that pace is suicidal. On that night, Kipketer isn't being broken by anybody at all - he's doing the breaking.

I'm really surprised that Kipketer didn't get more "votes" here. His form in 97 at least was as good as Rudisha's in 2010 or 2012.