An Outsider wrote:
Update: watch this video and read the comments. Hans is cheating.
This is what is not a proof.
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huhuh wrote:
An Outsider wrote:
Update: watch this video and read the comments. Hans is cheating.This is what is not a proof.
Hans has played SUBSTANTIALLY better than every grandmaster ever, to the point that he has played multiple games now in a short period of time that were played more perfectly than the best games ever played by the next best 3 chess players in history. Like Hans' 10 best games are better than the combined 10 best games from Kasparov, Fischer, and Carlsen. He has something like 10 perfect games, whereas Bobby Fischer did not have a single perfect game in his entire career. The odds of this happening, especially given how badly Hans plays a lot of other times, is essentially zero.
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An Outsider wrote:
huhuh wrote:
This is what is not a proof.
Hans has played SUBSTANTIALLY better than every grandmaster ever, to the point that he has played multiple games now in a short period of time that were played more perfectly than the best games ever played by the next best 3 chess players in history. Like Hans' 10 best games are better than the combined 10 best games from Kasparov, Fischer, and Carlsen. He has something like 10 perfect games, whereas Bobby Fischer did not have a single perfect game in his entire career. The odds of this happening, especially given how badly Hans plays a lot of other times, is essentially zero.
The computers have confirmed that Hans cheats. It's probably impossible to determine how after the fact, but it's 100% confirmed he cheated over the board based on the superhuman accuracy of his play in several consecutive tournaments.
Magnus has handled everything extremely well. He resigned in one move against Hans but still win the tournament in dominating fashion. He's a hero for speaking out against Hans who is a clear cheater.
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He (a couple of days ago) beat Caruana in 21 moves, and his moves from 8-12 were bad. I think he cheated
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An Outsider wrote:
huhuh wrote:
This is what is not a proof.
Hans has played SUBSTANTIALLY better than every grandmaster ever, to the point that he has played multiple games now in a short period of time that were played more perfectly than the best games ever played by the next best 3 chess players in history. Like Hans' 10 best games are better than the combined 10 best games from Kasparov, Fischer, and Carlsen. He has something like 10 perfect games, whereas Bobby Fischer did not have a single perfect game in his entire career. The odds of this happening, especially given how badly Hans plays a lot of other times, is essentially zero.
Hans has made all kinds of mistakes in recent games. What are you talking about?
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Not really though wrote:
An Outsider wrote:
Hans has played SUBSTANTIALLY better than every grandmaster ever, to the point that he has played multiple games now in a short period of time that were played more perfectly than the best games ever played by the next best 3 chess players in history. Like Hans' 10 best games are better than the combined 10 best games from Kasparov, Fischer, and Carlsen. He has something like 10 perfect games, whereas Bobby Fischer did not have a single perfect game in his entire career. The odds of this happening, especially given how badly Hans plays a lot of other times, is essentially zero.
Hans has made all kinds of mistakes in recent games. What are you talking about?
Because now the spotlight is on him he can't cheat as easily. Match organizers are putting in place more anti-cheating measures.
But over the past few years under the radar he has put together several tournaments with higher accuracy than Bobby Fisher and other world champions, including 6 in a row.
Yet somehow now he can't play nearly as accurately?? Did he get worse? Or maybe the anti-cheating measures are now working.
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DC Doctor1 wrote:
The most glaring circumstantial evidence that I have heard against Niemann is that he could only answer “intuition” when asked by the reporter about his unique moves. To me that’s damning: any GrandMaster could easily recall the exact moves on the board that were pivotal in the match. I’ll bet many could recall most if not all the moves/positions in the match.
Niemann is most definitely cheating - we just haven’t yet determined how it was done.
Every active GM in the world will know every move from a game they just finished playing.
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I’ll remember the opening (first 15 or so moves defending in the line) and some key points.
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randomcoach wrote:
DC Doctor1 wrote:
The most glaring circumstantial evidence that I have heard against Niemann is that he could only answer “intuition” when asked by the reporter about his unique moves. To me that’s damning: any GrandMaster could easily recall the exact moves on the board that were pivotal in the match. I’ll bet many could recall most if not all the moves/positions in the match.
Niemann is most definitely cheating - we just haven’t yet determined how it was done.
Every active GM in the world will know every move from a game they just finished playing.
Every GM can remember every move from 99% of their tournament games a far back as 10 years. In major games, they'll remember every move for the rest of their lives.
Niemann couldn't even do that. This makes Magnus' claim that Hans seemed like he wasn't paying attention even more sharp. He wasn't paying close attention because he was just playing computer moves, he didn't have to calculate or think.
Cheater.
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Confirmed it wrote:
randomcoach wrote:
Every active GM in the world will know every move from a game they just finished playing.
Every GM can remember every move from 99% of their tournament games a far back as 10 years. In major games, they'll remember every move for the rest of their lives.
Niemann couldn't even do that. This makes Magnus' claim that Hans seemed like he wasn't paying attention even more sharp. He wasn't paying close attention because he was just playing computer moves, he didn't have to calculate or think.
Cheater.
I think this is the most telling thing. I've been "around" chess since 1991, even though I'm a total hack, I appreciate the art. One thing that has always amazed me is the recall that top chess players have with not only their games, but so many other games.
There are videos on YouTube where Magnus is interviewed about games he played 10, 15 years ago, and he can go move my move in them, from memory. So for a top guy to not even explain how he just beat the world's greatest player... hmm.
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Someone needs to bring some data to this.
Like, what percent of correct (according to a computer) moves did he make over many games and tournaments in the past?
Then did he have a streak of perfect or nearly perfect games?
Then, with the new security measures and post-accusation, what is his correct-move percent?
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An Outsider wrote:
huhuh wrote:
This is what is not a proof.
Hans has played SUBSTANTIALLY better than every grandmaster ever, to the point that he has played multiple games now in a short period of time that were played more perfectly than the best games ever played by the next best 3 chess players in history. Like Hans' 10 best games are better than the combined 10 best games from Kasparov, Fischer, and Carlsen. He has something like 10 perfect games, whereas Bobby Fischer did not have a single perfect game in his entire career. The odds of this happening, especially given how badly Hans plays a lot of other times, is essentially zero.
Try again.
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Confirmed it wrote:
randomcoach wrote:
Every active GM in the world will know every move from a game they just finished playing.
Every GM can remember every move from 99% of their tournament games a far back as 10 years. In major games, they'll remember every move for the rest of their lives.
Niemann couldn't even do that. This makes Magnus' claim that Hans seemed like he wasn't paying attention even more sharp. He wasn't paying close attention because he was just playing computer moves, he didn't have to calculate or think.
Cheater.
Can you tell me how you are so sure of this? I could remember all moves from my own games (for a period of time after the game) starting around 1400-1500, but I'm not close enough to GMs to know if they all have nearly perfect recall of all tournament games for long periods of time. I would guess it's not as widespread as you state, but that they'd remember the opening and main ideas of every game, if not the precise move order of all games.
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randomcoach wrote:
Confirmed it wrote:
Every GM can remember every move from 99% of their tournament games a far back as 10 years. In major games, they'll remember every move for the rest of their lives.
Niemann couldn't even do that. This makes Magnus' claim that Hans seemed like he wasn't paying attention even more sharp. He wasn't paying close attention because he was just playing computer moves, he didn't have to calculate or think.
Cheater.
Can you tell me how you are so sure of this? I could remember all moves from my own games (for a period of time after the game) starting around 1400-1500, but I'm not close enough to GMs to know if they all have nearly perfect recall of all tournament games for long periods of time. I would guess it's not as widespread as you state, but that they'd remember the opening and main ideas of every game, if not the precise move order of all games.
I know this doesn't prove anything, but here is an example (and I've seen many GM be able to do this)And I'm not suggesting that if Hans cannot do that, then he's a cheater, but if he can't explain in depth a game he just played where he beat the world #1...
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Oh Please wrote:
randomcoach wrote:
Can you tell me how you are so sure of this? I could remember all moves from my own games (for a period of time after the game) starting around 1400-1500, but I'm not close enough to GMs to know if they all have nearly perfect recall of all tournament games for long periods of time. I would guess it's not as widespread as you state, but that they'd remember the opening and main ideas of every game, if not the precise move order of all games.
I know this doesn't prove anything, but here is an example (and I've seen many GM be able to do this)And I'm not suggesting that if Hans cannot do that, then he's a cheater, but if he can't explain in depth a game he just played where he beat the world #1...
I am not a chess guy but have seen this sort of recall before in interviews with GMs. They can recall every move from recent games and can often recall basically every move from important games going back 10+ years. Part of it is because professional chess players study chess games. That's a huge part of becoming good at chess. They study others games, famous games, and their own games. For someone to seem to not possess this ability is a huge tell that they are not a true GM.
Again, none of this PROVES anything, but it's one of those things where the probability is so close to 1 that you don't need tangible proof.
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RossiCheated wrote:
Someone needs to bring some data to this.
Like, what percent of correct (according to a computer) moves did he make over many games and tournaments in the past?
Then did he have a streak of perfect or nearly perfect games?
Then, with the new security measures and post-accusation, what is his correct-move percent?
That's exactly what they do, and have been doing - and it looks like he is for sure a cheater.
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Well... if he really is cheating...how is he doing it? If he's using the vibrating anal beads that have been rumored, he has to have the greatest poker-face in the history of mankind. Does he have one of Blofeld's bionic eyes? A direct cerebral link to the Matrix? How???
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His shoe made a noise under a metal detector.
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An Outsider wrote:
Hans has played SUBSTANTIALLY better than every grandmaster ever, to the point that he has played multiple games now in a short period of time that were played more perfectly than the best games ever played by the next best 3 chess players in history.
Yet Nieman only finished 8th in the tournament!
Therefore at least 7 of the players in that tournament played better than perfect!!!
Or.... Hiraku Nakamura is a POS who's making up nonsensical BS and false accusations.11 -
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