I PRd with a 4:35 mile and was running ~2:04 in the 800 around age 45. I am not even sure I could run an 800 at my mile PR pace right now. Not that 27s were "easy", but I would do sessions of 5-6x200 at 27 from time to time or close a 15x200 session with a couple of 27s. In that sense, running a 27 was no big deal. Now the same effort would be a 30 flat, at best.
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30
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55 here. I have been a competitive runner off and on since i was 14. my peak was in my thirties. Basically averaging 30 to 40 mpw with one speed day. Now i probably do 95/5 and hope i dont get injured because it takes twice as long to recover. Will race a couple of times a year. 5K or 10K. 10 minute miles are my bulk now.
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I already posted a bit upthread. There has been some good and sincere input here. Some a bit annoying. I think a decline is going to be defined by any number of factors. Injury/health, interest in keeping going (motivation), aging and genetics of aging, diet and weight gain, type of training, and adapting as you age.
It's interesting.
By some numbers here is my decline/change over the decades.
Open - 15:14, 1:21
40s - 16:21, 1:17
50s - 17:01, 1:18
60s - 17:28, 1:17
So no cliff (although as I mentioned I dropped off really fast at age 35), but at 64 I have dropped some (+/ 18 for 5K, 1:21 half) compared to 60-61.
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That's 1:11 for HM as an open runner (age 24)
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Jazz Hands wrote:
57 here. I can't say I've fallen off of any cliff. Sure I get tired faster, can't move my legs as quick, get tight easy, etc, etc but I'll say that the feeling of running hard is no different than when I was 15. I ran 3:54 for 1500, 33 years ago and 5:11 last year and they were kind of the same. They both hurt and I felt pretty satisfied later. I wish I was faster and do work at it, but am more than happy that I simply still enjoy the sport.
This is an awesome, inspiring post. Thank you.
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Ran my PRs for the marathon (2:38) and half (1:15) this year at 46. I can no longer maintain the same base level of fitness year round, but I can peak better now. I don't know if that's a reflection of my age, or just if I'm hitting the upper reaches of my limited talent. I've been waiting for things to drop off a cliff and it hasn't happened yet. Granted, my cliff was never that high. I think my cliff might come in the form of less motivation. Mentally, I just don't have another marathon cycle in me. Without a big race to focus on I have a harder time putting in the miles.
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At age 33 and in otherwise pretty good health, I know that on paper I shouldn't be "off the cliff" yet. But it sure feels that way. I started running in middle school then took it seriously from sophomore year onward. Ended HS at 4:28/9:55 and have a 1:59.X 4x8 split to my name as well. Ran D3 but mostly sucked, never capitalized on my mediocre talent through the magic of consistent high mileage.
Got back into running on the club scene around age 29 and did well at first. Then I picked up some achilles tendonitis that seems to have started a pattern of always feeling like I'm either injured or fighting off an injury. The latest is a hamstring strain that I've been dealing with for about 10 months now. On top of that, I have an 8 week old daughter who I love very much. We haven't slept through the night since her birth and my body just feels like it's breaking down. I'm having back problems for the first time in my life and probably ran about 20 miles total in the month of August. It's rough. I still really enjoy running but not when I feel like I'm f***ing up my hamstring with every step and/or spending 30+ minutes a day doing rehab exercises.
From perusing these forums I know some of you dads have put up some impressive running accomplishments. I don't know how you do it. I honestly get a little depressed thinking about how by the time I have the time/energy to do much running again, I'll probably be pushing 40 and PRs will be but a distant memory. Feels like I'm just managing the decline.
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79 in a few days, have experienced a slow decline over the decades. Currently run 6x per week-35-40 miles a week. Current total miles since 4/76—- 97,630 miles and counting! Notice faster slide down since turning 75. Stopped marathons and ultras then. I am going to cut back to 5x a week running. Always have walked 2-3 miles a day with my dog. I have found walking has helped my running.
When people pass me when I am running I tell them it is a recovery day. Worst scenario is when I am passed by walkers while I am running.😜100 -
EarlyFifties wrote:
I've known a few of these fellows in my day (and hated them) so my eye and ear are pretty good at picking them out of the crowd.
Are there a few who are natural, lucky, unadulterated? Sure, but a LOT of middle agers these days are finding ways to 'stay young', so...
I see it more in triathletes and cyclists. I suspect a fair amount of ultra runners too, especially with the infiltration of crossfitters into the sport. My feeling is I can't be bothered by what other people do to get an age group award. I just run to continually improve. Placing in my age group can be an added bit of fun and motivation, but it's never been my reason for running. It takes too much energy to hate someone for something that doesn't really matter. And you can still compete with these TRT guys, since the excess muscle they invariably put on eventually slows them down.
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58 here. We were talking about this the other day about back in our 40's it was like two steps forward, injury, one step back. For me, around 46 was when I realized I probably wasn't going to PR in the marathon again. But I felt I had a 2:50-52 in me. One week before the race I pulled a hammy doing a stride and have not run a marathon since. At 49 I rallied and ran a 59 min 10-miler and a 1:20 half. Then pulled a calf. At 58, I feel like it's one step forward and two steps back. Can't seem to get 3-6 months of steady training in to prepare for anything. So now I bike ride (hard - was a bike racer and still race) 3-days a week and run 3 days and my fitness is good but not really progressing in running. The running keeps me lean for cycling but beats up my legs. The cycling helps with strength for running but nothing much else. A few of us just started some weekly plyometrics and I am actually feeling stronger so we'll see if they pay off. They will...
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old man logan man wrote:
EarlyFifties wrote:
So as not to derail this excellent thread I'll leave my thoughts about HRT at this:
I'm greatly put off by the 'boosted' 50-something year old guy standing next to me at the starting line.
I respect people, runners or not, who age naturally. Declining hormone levels are part of the normal aging process and also likely protective against aggressive cancers. Slowing down, gaining body fat, greying hair, sagging, being humbled by all of it, they are essential parts of being a human being.
There's something about the psychology of trying to hold on against the natural arc of time that is arrogant, hubristic, selfish. It's also damned unfair to the rest of us out there when it comes to athletic endeavors.
I think this is central to the topic, as HRT might change where the cliff is for people.
I think of it this way - if someone is so insecure (or sexually inadequate) that they feel the need to use HRT for race times or better abs when it's not otherwise needed, then I feel bad for them. I'll wouldn't trade a minute off my 5k time for a boatload of insecurity or whatever else is going on with them that drives them to HRT.
I had to laugh... I am that insecure but fear of prostate cancer relapse keeps me clean!
In all seriousness, thanks to everyone for this thread. One of the better ones over the past twenty years here.
Come to think of it... 22 years ago is when I slowed down. Maybe it should have been less reading about running and more running.
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hello
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hrunner wrote:
you have a lot of luck with genetics - good for you
it's your eg crediting with yourself with how smart you train - tons of runners train smart, many dont' have the bodies to hold up
This. I was training at about 25-30 MPW, and the meniscus tore on me. A year later with less than ten MPW, the other one tore. I tried the smart way to do it, and it bit me hard.
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My generalized theory, based mostly on observation, is that women have a significant dropoff typically in their late 40s, based on when the most substantial hormone changes are occurring, whereas men experience a steadier decline in performance, because testosterone decrease is steadier than progesterone/estrogen fluctuations.
I'm 48 and female, and what I've learned so far is that you have to be constantly paying attention to things you need to adjust, like mileage, when it's ok to do hard workouts, etc. I used to do 3 seasons per year in my 30s because I was able to ramp up quickly and train hard for a few months, drop down and rest, then repeat. I switched my overall program to be less peaky, because it takes too long to get in basic shape and I can't handle the same level of work even after I get in basic shape. That has kind of worked, but I'm finding that I sometimes get stale at the wrong times, so obviously I haven't totally figured it out yet.
Staying healthy is the first most important thing, I'd say.
The second most important thing is not being married to the things you've done in the past. It's a pain in the ass figuring out what works for you as you age, because it's highly individual, it keeps changing from year to year, and a lot of times you can't tell something isn't working anymore until you've gotten yourself in a hole - at which point you have to get yourself out of the hole and then figure out which thing(s) put you there in the first place. It can be very frustrating. But that's the game as you age. Adjust, adjust, adjust.
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old man logan man wrote:
EarlyFifties wrote:
So as not to derail this excellent thread I'll leave my thoughts about HRT at this:
I'm greatly put off by the 'boosted' 50-something year old guy standing next to me at the starting line.
I respect people, runners or not, who age naturally. Declining hormone levels are part of the normal aging process and also likely protective against aggressive cancers. Slowing down, gaining body fat, greying hair, sagging, being humbled by all of it, they are essential parts of being a human being.
There's something about the psychology of trying to hold on against the natural arc of time that is arrogant, hubristic, selfish. It's also damned unfair to the rest of us out there when it comes to athletic endeavors.
I think this is central to the topic, as HRT might change where the cliff is for people.
I think of it this way - if someone is so insecure (or sexually inadequate) that they feel the need to use HRT for race times or better abs when it's not otherwise needed, then I feel bad for them. I'll wouldn't trade a minute off my 5k time for a boatload of insecurity or whatever else is going on with them that drives them to HRT.
I wouldn't say it's all about insecurities & not everyone using HRT is a runner who's competitively racing. As I mentioned in my initial post, I'm retired & spend a lot of time at the gym. I've made a lot of friends & acquaintances over the years.The vast majority of middle-aged guys that I talk to that are on HRT are not competitive endurance athletes - they are guys lifting weights who want to increase lean muscle mass, reduce BF, increase strength, reduce sarcopenia & generally improve their quality of life in their semi-retired/retirement years. Again, these aren't competitive endurance athletes - many of them wouldn't be caught dead running & their preferred form of cardio are things like the spin bike, stair stepper, walking on the treadmill, etc.
The other aspect I mentioned is that it's not just TRT but DHEA, an OTC hormonal product that's regulated as a dietary supplement. I've talk to many middle-aged guys who use DHEA as part of their daily supplement routine. In fact, one of leading authorities on DHEA supplementation is Dennis Villareal, M.D., professor of medicine in endocrinology, diabetes & metabolism, Baylor College of Medicine. He authored several studies on DHEA supplementation with elderly individuals & it's impact on increased muscle mass, strength improvement, reduction of BF, control of insulin, improved metabolism, etc. In fact, the evidence suggests that DHEA doesn't increase testosterone levels with men but increases IGF-1 as the dynamics.
Like I mentioned, the cat is out of the bag with HRT being used with positive results by so many men these days. And if there's a simple, inexpensive hormone (DHEA) regulated as a dietary supplement that shows some positive results in clinical studies, how are aging guys wanting to improve their physique & combat the effects of aging - how can you expect them not to use these supplements?
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Harry Johnson wrote:
45 years old here. In the last year I have gone from comfortably running 6 days and 50 mpw, including a tempo, workout, and longish run, to struggling to run 35-40 mpw, with maybe one workout per week. No one thing to point to for the fall off. Tight hamstring, sore knee, general lack of get up and go in my stride. Simply can’t finish workouts I was doing up to last year and the preceding 7-8 years.
Understand that aging is inevitable, but I guess I didn’t think my fitness would fall off this quickly. I’ve put on no extra pounds and continue to lift weights at the same level, telling me I haven’t lost muscle mass. Every now and then I’ll get a good day where I feel it coming back, but mostly I just feel old and broken down.
Curious as to other people’s experience.
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Let's really get to the bottom of this wrote:
old man logan man wrote:
I think this is central to the topic, as HRT might change where the cliff is for people.
I think of it this way - if someone is so insecure (or sexually inadequate) that they feel the need to use HRT for race times or better abs when it's not otherwise needed, then I feel bad for them. I'll wouldn't trade a minute off my 5k time for a boatload of insecurity or whatever else is going on with them that drives them to HRT.
I wouldn't say it's all about insecurities & not everyone using HRT is a runner who's competitively racing. As I mentioned in my initial post, I'm retired & spend a lot of time at the gym. I've made a lot of friends & acquaintances over the years.The vast majority of middle-aged guys that I talk to that are on HRT are not competitive endurance athletes - they are guys lifting weights who want to increase lean muscle mass, reduce BF, increase strength, reduce sarcopenia & generally improve their quality of life in their semi-retired/retirement years. Again, these aren't competitive endurance athletes - many of them wouldn't be caught dead running & their preferred form of cardio are things like the spin bike, stair stepper, walking on the treadmill, etc.
The other aspect I mentioned is that it's not just TRT but DHEA, an OTC hormonal product that's regulated as a dietary supplement. I've talk to many middle-aged guys who use DHEA as part of their daily supplement routine. In fact, one of leading authorities on DHEA supplementation is Dennis Villareal, M.D., professor of medicine in endocrinology, diabetes & metabolism, Baylor College of Medicine. He authored several studies on DHEA supplementation with elderly individuals & it's impact on increased muscle mass, strength improvement, reduction of BF, control of insulin, improved metabolism, etc. In fact, the evidence suggests that DHEA doesn't increase testosterone levels with men but increases IGF-1 as the dynamics.
Like I mentioned, the cat is out of the bag with HRT being used with positive results by so many men these days. And if there's a simple, inexpensive hormone (DHEA) regulated as a dietary supplement that shows some positive results in clinical studies, how are aging guys wanting to improve their physique & combat the effects of aging - how can you expect them not to use these supplements?
Can't hear a word your saying.
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* Oh, my apologies. Make that "you're" saying.
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I'm 59 and I've noticed this year I've slowed down a lot from last year. I had some good races in 2021: 36:48 10K and 1:21:01 Half. But this year has been rough- an injury back in February that set me back. Plus, the races I did run were done in high humidity/hot temperatures. To compare, in 2022, I've run 38:37 and 1:25:20. I'm hoping for cooler weather and averaging 40-45 miles a week now, I'll get back to around a 1:22 half in November. Good Luck to all us old guys and gals still out there competing!
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Here's my contribution to the thread. The past few years I've been running along side the cliff but not quite falling off! I had a pretty good run in my 50s. 16:08 at 50, 16:13 at 51, 16:33 at 53, 16:45 at 55, 16:54 at 56. Then the cliff was fast approaching. I first noticed my Achilles tendonitis/tendonosis around 2014. The pain was unbearable at times and I was an off/on runner from 2017-2020. I did manage a 17:45 and 5:11 mile in 2019 at 59 but then it was over. It was mostly biking and walking after that mile. Occasional running. I had the Tenex Achilles procedure on Oct 15, 2020. Hopeful but not overly optimistic I'd ever run pain free again. I honestly thought my running was done. Fast forward to the present. I've slowly built my miles back up since my first post Op 5 min jog on Dec 10 2020. I've been at 50-60 PAINFREE miles most of this year. With an occasional speed session. Now at 62+ I've lost a lot of speed. I did get my 5k down to 18:29 last week and my mile to 5:25 a few weeks before that. I'd like to think I can get back to the 90% age grades yet this year but I need to knock off another 25 seconds. That's a big maybe!
My HM has really fallen off. I was in the 1:15s in my early 50s. I went 1:29+ earlier this year in my first HM in at least 5 years.
Anyhow, I see the cliff approaching everyday but I have yet to take the leap off! And I've got the constant struggle wondering if, after 47 years of running now, I really want to do this anymore...
Dave
90
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