Why it's important that it appears she is continuing to train with her team:
10.14 Status during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension 10.14.1 Prohibition against Participation during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension No Athlete or other Person who has been declared Ineligible or is subject to a Provisional Suspension may, during a period of Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension, participate in any capacity in a Competition or activity (other than authorized anti-doping Education or rehabilitation programs) authorized or organized by any Signatory, Signatory’s member organization, or a club or other member organization of a Signatory’s member organization, or in Competitions authorized or organized by any professional league or any international- or national-level Event organization or any elite or national-level sporting activity funded by a governmental agency.77 An Athlete or other Person subject to a period of Ineligibility longer than four (4) years may, after completing four (4) years of the period of Ineligibility, participate as an Athlete in local sport events not sanctioned or otherwise under the authority of a Code Signatory or member of a Code Signatory, but only so long as the local sport event is not at a level that could otherwise qualify such Athlete or other Person directly or indirectly to compete in (or accumulate points toward) a national championship or International Event, and does not involve the Athlete or other Person working in any capacity with Protected Persons. An Athlete or other Person subject to a period of Ineligibility shall remain subject to Testing and any requirement by an Anti-Doping Organization to provide whereabouts information. 10.14.2 Return to Training As an exception to Article 10.14.1, an Athlete may return to train with a team or to use the facilities of a club or other member organization of a Signatory’s member organization during the shorter of: (1) the last two (2) months of the Athlete’s period of Ineligibility, or (2) the last onequarter of the period of Ineligibility imposed.
77 [Comment to Article 10.14.1: For example, subject to Article 10.14.2 below, Ineligible Athletes cannot participate in a training camp, exhibition or practice organized by their National Federation or a club which is a member of that National Federation or which is funded by a governmental agency. Further, an Ineligible Athlete may not compete in a non-Signatory professional league (e.g., the National Hockey League, the National Basketball Association, etc.), Events organized by a non-Signatory International Event organization or a non-Signatory national-level Event organization without triggering the Consequences set forth in Article 10.14.3. The term “activity” also includes, for example, administrative activities, such as serving as an official, director, officer, employee, or volunteer of the organization described in this Article. Ineligibility imposed in one sport shall also be recognized by other sports (see Article 15.1, Automatic Binding Effect of Decisions). An Athlete or other Person serving a period of Ineligibility is prohibited from coaching or serving as an Athlete Support Person in any other capacity at any time during the period of Ineligibility, and doing so could also result in a violation of 2.10 by another Athlete. Any performance standard accomplished during a period of Ineligibility shall not be recognized by a Signatory or its National Federations for any purpose.] 78 [Comment to Article 10.14.2: In many Team Sports and some individual sports (e.g., ski jumping and gymnastics), Athletes cannot effectively train on their own so as to be ready to compete at the end of the Athlete’s period of Ineligibility. During the training period described in this Article, an Ineligible Athlete may not compete or engage in any activity described in Article 10.14.1 other than training.]
BUT have we had an answer to whether or not BTC is affiliated to USATF?
Comment 78. Interesting how this applies to track and field. For instance; in the UK can’t go throwing on their own and can a female go out alone etc etc .Facintating.
In the immediately aftermath of the announcement, Jonathan Gault, who I respect a lot as a writer, wrote this weird op-ed where he released more facts surrounding the ban half way through the article. IIRC, the article essentially said that he "knows" Shelby, and didn't believe it. If you read between the lines of some of the other coverage LR has done on her ban, they do not take nearly a strong of a stance as they have against other athletes. The questions they asked Ross Tucker made it seem like they were looking for one soundbite for him to say "she's could be innocent"
Why it's important that it appears she is continuing to train with her team:
10.14 Status during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension 10.14.1 Prohibition against Participation during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension ...
Thanks for the response, but sorry, it doesn't answer why it is important to you, or "LarsL11" or "here we go again", or all the countless outsiders not party to this contract, and not harmed by any violation, alleged or real.
By my reading, she is free to train wherever, by whomever, with whomever she wants, so long as the arrangements are private, and the terms are respected.
It's a shame someone like you didn't forward the WADA Code to GDS, verbatim, because by these clear terms, athletes and coaches are not subject to Houlihan's ineligibility constraints, and GDS stressed for nothing.
You should see the amount of hate that Taoufik Makhloufi and Mohamed Katir get relating to doping, and neither of them have ever even tested positive for anything
It's a shame someone like you didn't forward the WADA Code to GDS, verbatim, because by these clear terms, athletes and coaches are not subject to Houlihan's ineligibility constraints, and GDS stressed for nothing.
No, it's a shame that Jerry and Shalene and Nike didn't make this clear to GDS and to the other members of the team and the public at large that they are still coaching Shelby in this manner.
I've said it on other threads but I'll say it again: I believe that BTC will be dissolved prior to the next Olympics. Unfortunately, they will probably make up a majority of the USA distance team at the upcoming World Champs. I don't care what you think, but I won't support any BTC athletes until they leave the group.
Why it's important that it appears she is continuing to train with her team:
10.14 Status during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension 10.14.1 Prohibition against Participation during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension ...
Thanks for the response, but sorry, it doesn't answer why it is important to you, or "LarsL11" or "here we go again", or all the countless outsiders not party to this contract, and not harmed by any violation, alleged or real.
By my reading, she is free to train wherever, by whomever, with whomever she wants, so long as the arrangements are private, and the terms are respected.
It's a shame someone like you didn't forward the WADA Code to GDS, verbatim, because by these clear terms, athletes and coaches are not subject to Houlihan's ineligibility constraints, and GDS stressed for nothing.
Do you realize that GDS was aware of this and this exactly what she was questioning lol. There is an interview on Let's Run in which she precisely and concisely discusses that this is the reason why she left the team, is confusion, and lack of communication around this very issue. This is extremely awkward for you. I'm sorry.
Why it's important that it appears she is continuing to train with her team:
10.14 Status during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension 10.14.1 Prohibition against Participation during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension ...
Thanks for the response, but sorry, it doesn't answer why it is important to you, or "LarsL11" or "here we go again", or all the countless outsiders not party to this contract, and not harmed by any violation, alleged or real.
By my reading, she is free to train wherever, by whomever, with whomever she wants, so long as the arrangements are private, and the terms are respected.
It's a shame someone like you didn't forward the WADA Code to GDS, verbatim, because by these clear terms, athletes and coaches are not subject to Houlihan's ineligibility constraints, and GDS stressed for nothing.
1. GDS will make bigger improvements in her own country .
2. Many people do not want to spend there life in a foreign country
3. GDS priority is to her career , not Shelby's
4. Having a convicted Steroid user around you is bad for corporate sponsorships .
Why it's important that it appears she is continuing to train with her team:
10.14 Status during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension 10.14.1 Prohibition against Participation during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension ...
Thanks for the response, but sorry, it doesn't answer why it is important to you, or "LarsL11" or "here we go again", or all the countless outsiders not party to this contract, and not harmed by any violation, alleged or real.
Why do you need an answer? Have you heard about this thing called sports before? It gets millions of people to discuss results, athletes, the surrounding politics. Why is anything in life important? Why not just stick to talk about where to gather food and how to protect our home?
Why should I care if seomone else does a crime, or does something I think is immoral? It doesn't concern me, right? Well unfortunate I am not as egoistic as you, so I just care. It upsets me to read the post of her former teammate. It upsets me that she tries to get attention that other runners deserve. It upsets me if they are breaking the rules (again, first time was having nandrolone in their body). You don't need to repeat that "by your reading" she has done nothing wrong, we all know.
PS: It f*cking sucks for athletes to be associated with a banned athlete. You saying that in your opinion that doesn't matter is like a homeless guy saying that you don't really need to shower each week.
Thanks for the response, but sorry, it doesn't answer why it is important to you, or "LarsL11" or "here we go again", or all the countless outsiders not party to this contract, and not harmed by any violation, alleged or real.
By my reading, she is free to train wherever, by whomever, with whomever she wants, so long as the arrangements are private, and the terms are respected.
It's a shame someone like you didn't forward the WADA Code to GDS, verbatim, because by these clear terms, athletes and coaches are not subject to Houlihan's ineligibility constraints, and GDS stressed for nothing.
Do you realize that GDS was aware of this and this exactly what she was questioning lol. There is an interview on Let's Run in which she precisely and concisely discusses that this is the reason why she left the team, is confusion, and lack of communication around this very issue. This is extremely awkward for you. I'm sorry.
I don't know all of the things that GDS was aware of, but I do realize that GDS was confused and worried. This is not awkward for me at all, as I have the relevant answers to her questions.
Apparently the verbatim text of the WADA Code which spells out her obligations, and something she is obligated to know as an athlete, wasn't enough to provide her the clarity she needed to determine whether she was at risk of violating the Code.
Armstrong got way more hate. When Houlihan goes on Oprah and gets booed then we can talk.
I don't recall you harrassing Lance Armstrong every time he hopped on a bike after his ban or when he hosts his numerous podcasts providing coverage of bike races.
There's definitely something wrong with the situation. Salazar was rightly dragged for what went on at NOP, even before he was suspended, when all we had were testimonies from Magness and Goucher. Now, we have BTC with it's proven doping positive and the coach has not had to answer a single question about it or his subsequent response in allowing the doped athlete to continue training alongside the group. Is it because Schumacher isn't as big a fish as Salazar, that's why no one cares? In the MSM, I'm sure no one even knows who BTC are since, but running journalists should be on this. Why hasn't anyone wrote a feature about the BTCs response to this whole episode? Are they too close to some of the people around BTC e.g. Flanagan has a lot of supporters among the running media. Someone needs to get into this, ask hard questions and do the job of a journalist rather than a scribe.
Jerry HAS said something about it and it was almost immediately. He hasn't said much lately because it was being investigated and appealed. Runners who have left said they saw no foul play with the team. There is a huge difference between this and what happened with Salazar.
Do you realize that GDS was aware of this and this exactly what she was questioning lol. There is an interview on Let's Run in which she precisely and concisely discusses that this is the reason why she left the team, is confusion, and lack of communication around this very issue. This is extremely awkward for you. I'm sorry.
I don't know all of the things that GDS was aware of, but I do realize that GDS was confused and worried. This is not awkward for me at all, as I have the relevant answers to her questions.
Apparently the verbatim text of the WADA Code which spells out her obligations, and something she is obligated to know as an athlete, wasn't enough to provide her the clarity she needed to determine whether she was at risk of violating the Code.
GDS is not confused . You are . She made a career decision to train in a clean environment in her home country .
Thanks for the response, but sorry, it doesn't answer why it is important to you, or "LarsL11" or "here we go again", or all the countless outsiders not party to this contract, and not harmed by any violation, alleged or real.
Why do you need an answer? Have you heard about this thing called sports before? It gets millions of people to discuss results, athletes, the surrounding politics. Why is anything in life important? Why not just stick to talk about where to gather food and how to protect our home?
Why should I care if seomone else does a crime, or does something I think is immoral? It doesn't concern me, right? Well unfortunate I am not as egoistic as you, so I just care. It upsets me to read the post of her former teammate. It upsets me that she tries to get attention that other runners deserve. It upsets me if they are breaking the rules (again, first time was having nandrolone in their body). You don't need to repeat that "by your reading" she has done nothing wrong, we all know.
I have to apologize to you. You actually provided me an answer.
I didn't ever say "she has done nothing wrong" but say "if ...".
I'm genuinely sorry for GDS, that she wasn't getting the clarity and communication she needed, and that Jerry/Shalane/Shelby/BTC didn't appreciate the extent of her concerns and address it sufficiently, until it was too late. As I said, I get that.
But my opinion of the surrounding politics is that GDS never had anything to worry about, regardless.
I don't know all of the things that GDS was aware of, but I do realize that GDS was confused and worried. This is not awkward for me at all, as I have the relevant answers to her questions.
Apparently the verbatim text of the WADA Code which spells out her obligations, and something she is obligated to know as an athlete, wasn't enough to provide her the clarity she needed to determine whether she was at risk of violating the Code.
GDS is not confused . You are . She made a career decision to train in a clean environment in her home country .
Now I am.
The other poster, "I mean ..." just told me that "the reason why she left the team, is confusion ..."
Maybe you two need to agree if confusion was the reason she left, and let me know what you decide.
It's a shame someone like you didn't forward the WADA Code to GDS, verbatim, because by these clear terms, athletes and coaches are not subject to Houlihan's ineligibility constraints, and GDS stressed for nothing.
No, it's a shame that Jerry and Shalene and Nike didn't make this clear to GDS and to the other members of the team ....
Thanks for the response, but sorry, it doesn't answer why it is important to you, or "LarsL11" or "here we go again", or all the countless outsiders not party to this contract, and not harmed by any violation, alleged or real.
By my reading, she is free to train wherever, by whomever, with whomever she wants, so long as the arrangements are private, and the terms are respected.
It's a shame someone like you didn't forward the WADA Code to GDS, verbatim, because by these clear terms, athletes and coaches are not subject to Houlihan's ineligibility constraints, and GDS stressed for nothing.
Do you realize that GDS was aware of this and this exactly what she was questioning lol. There is an interview on Let's Run in which she precisely and concisely discusses that this is the reason why she left the team, is confusion, and lack of communication around this very issue. This is extremely awkward for you. I'm sorry.
Exactly this. Here are her words.
While the [World Anti-Doping Code] has clauses relating to athletes serving bans, they are light on detail and leave some pretty key words undefined.
Furthermore, my and the group’s suggestions on boundaries to avoid any potential grey areas in the absence of those clarifying guidelines were rejected
It's clear that 1) she wasn't the only athlete uncomfortable since she said the group made suggestions that were rejected. Maybe she was the most concerned, but seems like there were collective issues here.
2) more relevant to this conversation, that Shelby/the team were doing things that seemed like something banned by the code so she wanted it in writing that it wasn't banned. The most obvious thing that comes to mind are non track runs. It's pretty much an established fact that Shelby was running with people on BTC (posting on strava activities in Flagstaff with Karissa Schweizer's boyfriend who was visiting the team at the time, what are the odds they did a long run together without Karissa?). The code explicitly bans practices, and implicitly bans training since it says an illegible athlete may return to training with a team several months before their ban ends. However what constitutes a practice or what constitutes training is not explicitly defined.
Id bet a lot of money that's why GDS left. That she viewed easy runs and long runs as training. I'd also wonder if Shelby used the BTC gym too cause an organized weight lift seems like practice to me too. GDS wants confirmation in writing that the AIU/WADA have said those things don't constitute training/practice per that part of the code and the team weren't able to provide that so she left.
GDS has spoken very positively about Schumacher and the team in general (even after leaving). You don't move you and your spouse to a different country, to a brand new training environment just 3 months before a world champs when you're setting North American records with a coach and team you like unless something major has happened. "But she left Glasgow inexplicably too, she might be crazy" - sure, she left the UK during its super strict lockdown where you couldn't meet up with people outside your household and Laura Muir/Jemma Reekie were roommates. So she couldn't meet her coach (who it seems she didn't love) and she couldn't run with her teammates. She also made that move right after the Olympics were cancelled, not months before it began. Doesn't seem like an apples to apples coaching change comparison. Also seems like the team dropped the ball big time with Lucia:
When Lucia made her decision to commit to BTC in the late summer and early fall, neither Lucia nor I were told that Shelby was going to keep training through her ban, nor the extent to which she was going to be around the team,” DeBues-Stafford said. “There was no communication about this situation at all. Had I had a crystal ball to see what December, January, and beyond would be like, I would have left after Tokyo, and Lucia would never have joined.”
But sure, they were both just super nervous.
You'd also have to feel if GDS had just made stuff up or exaggerated, Nike would have been livid and she'd been in hot water legally. The fact that there seems to be no repercussions and she's still a Nike athlete about to race at their headline meet even after dropping a word bomb on their most popular team shows that Nike don't have an issue with how she's behaved. Implicitly, it means they think she hasn't acted or spoken unfairly. She has even said Nike have been supportive through this. That's pretty telling - look how Nike have treated athletes who rocked the boat at NOP in the past (or journalists who wrote about it).
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