Cavorty, did you ever mention your height/weight? I am really, really intrigued reading your posts as I feel like I'm in a similar place as you (I'm 61, 40-163 or so for HR min/max) but if I keep my HR at 120 I might be hitting 9:45 paces! I usually run my easy runs at HR right at 130. I struggle to keep it below that as I always feel 'better' running at 135 - 140 HR but I don't think I should be up there on easy runs. Today I did 8.5miles and tried to keep the HR down, just to see what would happen. I ran 8.5 miles with average HR of 122. Pace? 9:22/mile average. this is a massive difference from your 7:45 at HR of 120. I've recently run a 10mile race at 7:18 pace and then an 8K race at 7:04 pace. The 10miler had my avg/max HR of 151/159 and the 8K had it at 151/159 as well. Hmm, wonder what that means - same HR profile for races 2X in distance apart? I use a chest strap to measure.
Hi,
About 5ft 8 1/2 ins and 148 lbs - was down to 143 lbs after some long runs when training for a long trail run, but that's more dehydration than anything. I was at a very similar weight, or even a couple of pounds heavier when running my best 800/1500m nearly 40 years ago, so would expect to be healthy much under 146 lbs or so.
Lasat two days I did consecutive days of 5 miles in 7:44 (HR average 116) in Nike Next and 4 miles with 4 strides in 4:47 (HR average 119) in 7:47 in very lightweight road shoes.
Nothing in the way of races recently, but the day after the cancelled Prefontaine 10k last September I ran a solo 5.56 in 36:36 (out and back course, total elevation 108ft up/108ft down) an average of 6:35 per mile. HR average was 136, max 152. I think on a flat course in a race, I could have held a similar pace for 10k, which would have been about 40:40.
Back in May last year, I see a solo 10 miles in 72:38 - 7:16 pace - on a hilly course (234ft up/258 ft down) at an average HR of 134 and max of 153.
For what it's worth, I've been training and competing for over 50 years, and haven't ever had more than a few weeks off. I also spent a lot of time in the last few years grinding away at 7:00-7:45 pace day in day out when an injury precluded speed work.
No race in all of 2021? Times don't count without a bib.
No proof of course, but if any 50+ guy is doping, it's Rideout. Look at his build (chunky for a runner), his background (boxing), his progression. I'd bet $1,000 that he's on TRT if nothing else.
Not saying that's true about all fast masters. In fact, I think most are clean. But some of them don't pass the sniff test for various reasons and Rideout is one of them.
I’m always nervous when we toss people under the bus on this forum. I believed Kevin Castille. I was obviously wrong. His incredible performances were an outlier but his previous pedigree gave him some credibility.
About 5ft 8 1/2 ins and 148 lbs - was down to 143 lbs after some long runs when training for a long trail run, but that's more dehydration than anything. I was at a very similar weight, or even a couple of pounds heavier when running my best 800/1500m nearly 40 years ago, so would expect to be healthy much under 146 lbs or so.
Lasat two days I did consecutive days of 5 miles in 7:44 (HR average 116) in Nike Next and 4 miles with 4 strides in 4:47 (HR average 119) in 7:47 in very lightweight road shoes.
Nothing in the way of races recently, but the day after the cancelled Prefontaine 10k last September I ran a solo 5.56 in 36:36 (out and back course, total elevation 108ft up/108ft down) an average of 6:35 per mile. HR average was 136, max 152. I think on a flat course in a race, I could have held a similar pace for 10k, which would have been about 40:40.
Back in May last year, I see a solo 10 miles in 72:38 - 7:16 pace - on a hilly course (234ft up/258 ft down) at an average HR of 134 and max of 153.
For what it's worth, I've been training and competing for over 50 years, and haven't ever had more than a few weeks off. I also spent a lot of time in the last few years grinding away at 7:00-7:45 pace day in day out when an injury precluded speed work.
No race in all of 2021? Times don't count without a bib.
Correct, no races in 2021, other than a 25k mountain trail race that I did because it was just down the road.
Targeted the Prefontaine 10k at Coos Bay in September. Drove down there to find it was cancelled due to COVID (never received a cancellation e-mail). Ran the 5.56 miles on a loop I have at home at 40:40 10k pace the following day. That was on Garmin, so probably not right to the yard, but still a fair indication.
If all goes well I'll do three races this year. The 3000m at Hayward Field next week. The Butte-to-Butte 10k at Eugene on July 4, and the World Senior Games 3000m in October (when I'm at the 'young' end of 65+ age group).
Injury and COVID greatly limited my racing activity for several years from 60 to now.
I did run 11:32 for a two mile road race when I was 60.
Again, just by Garmin, I have a 19:53 5k taken from a 4 mile tempo run last June, which would make me pretty confident that I could run at least 19:45.
After a couple of years where the left foot was like a flipper from ankle tendon damage, I've now been training without interruption for about 18 months, and can finally do some speed work. Prior to that when I could run I was doing a steady diet of 5 miles or so anywhere from 7:00 to 7:45 every day.
Neither 19:45-19:30 nor 41:00 for 10k are particularly spectacular times for 65 (I've age graded faster, with 17:32 5000m at 54 - in USATF Championship - and 37:13 at the same age, and a road 18:00 5k at 57).
The only reason I quoted those times was to give a ballpark, since I don't have any recent race times.
Well, that's definitely a (probably small) part of it. I'm 5'9 and 157 (ouch). I ran some decent times when I got it down to 147 but it was a massive struggle to get there.
No race in all of 2021? Times don't count without a bib.
Correct, no races in 2021, other than a 25k mountain trail race that I did because it was just down the road.
Targeted the Prefontaine 10k at Coos Bay in September. Drove down there to find it was cancelled due to COVID (never received a cancellation e-mail). Ran the 5.56 miles on a loop I have at home at 40:40 10k pace the following day. That was on Garmin, so probably not right to the yard, but still a fair indication.
If all goes well I'll do three races this year. The 3000m at Hayward Field next week. The Butte-to-Butte 10k at Eugene on July 4, and the World Senior Games 3000m in October (when I'm at the 'young' end of 65+ age group).
Injury and COVID greatly limited my racing activity for several years from 60 to now.
I did run 11:32 for a two mile road race when I was 60.
Again, just by Garmin, I have a 19:53 5k taken from a 4 mile tempo run last June, which would make me pretty confident that I could run at least 19:45.
After a couple of years where the left foot was like a flipper from ankle tendon damage, I've now been training without interruption for about 18 months, and can finally do some speed work. Prior to that when I could run I was doing a steady diet of 5 miles or so anywhere from 7:00 to 7:45 every day.
Neither 19:45-19:30 nor 41:00 for 10k are particularly spectacular times for 65 (I've age graded faster, with 17:32 5000m at 54 - in USATF Championship - and 37:13 at the same age, and a road 18:00 5k at 57).
The only reason I quoted those times was to give a ballpark, since I don't have any recent race times.
Correct, no races in 2021, other than a 25k mountain trail race that I did because it was just down the road.
Targeted the Prefontaine 10k at Coos Bay in September. Drove down there to find it was cancelled due to COVID (never received a cancellation e-mail). Ran the 5.56 miles on a loop I have at home at 40:40 10k pace the following day. That was on Garmin, so probably not right to the yard, but still a fair indication.
If all goes well I'll do three races this year. The 3000m at Hayward Field next week. The Butte-to-Butte 10k at Eugene on July 4, and the World Senior Games 3000m in October (when I'm at the 'young' end of 65+ age group).
Injury and COVID greatly limited my racing activity for several years from 60 to now.
I did run 11:32 for a two mile road race when I was 60.
Again, just by Garmin, I have a 19:53 5k taken from a 4 mile tempo run last June, which would make me pretty confident that I could run at least 19:45.
After a couple of years where the left foot was like a flipper from ankle tendon damage, I've now been training without interruption for about 18 months, and can finally do some speed work. Prior to that when I could run I was doing a steady diet of 5 miles or so anywhere from 7:00 to 7:45 every day.
Neither 19:45-19:30 nor 41:00 for 10k are particularly spectacular times for 65 (I've age graded faster, with 17:32 5000m at 54 - in USATF Championship - and 37:13 at the same age, and a road 18:00 5k at 57).
The only reason I quoted those times was to give a ballpark, since I don't have any recent race times.
Or any other marathon? I just don't get it. You've got guys and some women over 50 who can maintain sub-6:00 minute pace for 26 miles. There were 32 runners age 45-49 who ran 2:32 to 2:45. It's one thing to be fast when you are young and your body is biologically primed for it. It's another to be fast when 99% of your demographic is lining up for prostate checks and early retirement.
I know there a ton of info here on LRC about longer recovery times in workouts, taking long period off from running, strength training, etc., but it still doesn't make sense to me.
You are right that these are truly astonishing and impressive runners. Keep in mind that these are above the 99.99 percentile of the population. It is true that practically anyone in decent health can train to run a marathon, but not everyone can eventually get to sub-6’ pace for over 26 miles, and among the ones that can, there’s a huge diversity of how much time of their life (with a job and family etc.) they might need to spend to get there. Like many things in life like height, set point weight, looks, intelligence, disease resistance, longevity etc., genetics plays a huge role and it may require an inordinate amount of nurture to overcome nature.
This is a great topic for us older runners. I am simply amazed at a 55 year old running 2:39 at Boston. Knowing what I have experienced with muscle deterioration and longer recovery, I just don't get it. It is much more surprising to me than Kipchoge breaking running Sub 2:05.
I have tried everything in the book and can't stop the freight train of aging drastically reducing my times.
It is interesting that those here who say aging can't be beaten are speaking from experience while those who say it can be aren't - they just put it down to "genetics" (which they don't apparently have) or "training" (that they can no longer do). None of them are running these insane times.
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