It's insanity. We have a situation where a small group of zealots are attempting to coerce people to acquiesce to a radical theory about gender that has no basis in reality, bootstrapping this theory to identity politics where group rights are advocated above individual rights and mistreatment of individuals is rationalized as accomplishing some alleged higher good. And although a very fringe minority, they have the help of powerful institutions (the media, social media, the NCAA, etc). Thomas is among the most spoiled and privileged people in sports. Everything was made subordinate to his personal pleasure and if this hurt or mistreated the female athletes he was competing against the institutions in control did not care. In fact cruelty and rubbing it in women's faces was the entire point. This was political tribalism. We are in the midst of a societal nervous breakdown and this stupidity is part of it.
I can’t tell if you’re talking about Lia Thomas or transgenderism in general.
The vast majority of people, left and right, agree that trans women competing against biological women is crazy. I’ve secretly been hoping an elite male will switch sides and blow the women’s world records out of the water just to undeniably expose how ridiculous this all is. Like have a trans woman pop a 1:46 800 or something crazy. Seems like it’s only a matter of time.
If you’re at all talking about transgenderism in general then we diverge. If people want to dress like the opposite sex, change their name, change their pronouns, take drugs, have surgery - whatever, I could not give a crap and I’ll be respectful and use their new name if it makes them happy. Trans people say they were born with how they feel. I get it, very much about how I act and feel seems like it’s biological. And even if it weren’t, hey none of my business how a consenting adult lives their life.
I don’t find the idea that sex and gender are different to be at all radical.
The 2nd part of your post is a load of sexist tripe. Women and men can feel and act in many ways but none of those feelings or actions affect or compromise whether they are male or female, and a man is a male and a woman is a female. It's not complicated. A man can be gay, wear heels, wear dresses every day and he's a man. A woman can buzz her hair, be a lesbian and she is 100% a woman. 'Gender' is a nonsense, sexist concept built on stereotypes and nothing more.
I believe that trans women have the right to compete in recreational sports and when prize money is very small or non existent. DIII could probably be included in that. Local races should DEFINITELY be included in that. A couple hundred dollars of prize money is not worth as much as inclusion in a sport that's done for fun.
Equality to me means that when it comes to high-stakes competitions such as major D1/D2 collegiate competition or pro sports, our trans friends' performances should be roughly equivalent to those that they had in their age grade in their assigned gender at birth. If that cannot happen, then obviously more science and work needs to be done to decide what to do. Unfortunately we are stuck in this messy period and feelings are getting hurt, and both sides continue to scream at each other without any real mutual understanding. This is obviously a very gray area, but why do very few people act like it is?
Lia is a woman but the NCAA's policy has failed. How else could a woman who could not even make the NCAA national meet pre-transition suddenly win the women's meet as a trans person? It's not about being a man or a woman in the pool, it's about equivalent performances.
I know you don't mean it, but your solution implies that women are inferior to men in non-biological ways. Why have a female division if it is not based on biology? Because women are not as tough as men? Because they don't train as hard? Because DIII females don't care about winning as much as DIII males do?
The ONLY reason there is a female division in sports, at any level from recreation to pro, is that females are disadvantaged biologically relative to males. If one allows trans women to compete in a female division, then the whole reason for a female division to exist is eliminated.
I think the answer to the problem is simple. Have an open division and a restricted division, and the requirement for the restricted division is solely biological -- no y chromosomes. This allows trans athletes to compete on the same basis as everyone else, and not be forced to lose their identity by competing as a different gender.
I can’t tell if you’re talking about Lia Thomas or transgenderism in general.
The vast majority of people, left and right, agree that trans women competing against biological women is crazy. I’ve secretly been hoping an elite male will switch sides and blow the women’s world records out of the water just to undeniably expose how ridiculous this all is. Like have a trans woman pop a 1:46 800 or something crazy. Seems like it’s only a matter of time.
If you’re at all talking about transgenderism in general then we diverge. If people want to dress like the opposite sex, change their name, change their pronouns, take drugs, have surgery - whatever, I could not give a crap and I’ll be respectful and use their new name if it makes them happy. Trans people say they were born with how they feel. I get it, very much about how I act and feel seems like it’s biological. And even if it weren’t, hey none of my business how a consenting adult lives their life.
I don’t find the idea that sex and gender are different to be at all radical.
The 2nd part of your post is a load of sexist tripe. Women and men can feel and act in many ways but none of those feelings or actions affect or compromise whether they are male or female, and a man is a male and a woman is a female. It's not complicated. A man can be gay, wear heels, wear dresses every day and he's a man. A woman can buzz her hair, be a lesbian and she is 100% a woman. 'Gender' is a nonsense, sexist concept built on stereotypes and nothing more.
Then again for decades we refused to treat a host of psychological conditions as medical conditions. But here we are taking a medical condition and treating it like a lifestyle choice. Certainly does not help the people that have it, but when has that ever mattered to the so-called advocates on this issue?
This is my casual outsider observation. But "transgender advocates" are far from monolithic. Some of them are afraid to speak up on certain issues, because they don't want to be called "transphobic."
Some of the most ardent advocates are parents whose kids have suffered from consistent gender dysphoria. I don't know how they truly feel about the people who treat it as a "lifestyle" issue. But they'd better say nothing if they don't want their kids to be bullied.
I say good because this brings more attention to it. Hopefully with the new rules to go in place next year this will be the first and last time a guy wins.
Clearly you haven't been paying attention. They literally deleted JK Rowling over this nonsense.
Rational thought is no longer welcome in the academic world. The NCAA will appease the mob no matter what.
Definitions also change over time. Language is always evolving.
This isn't language - we're talking science. If the definition "changed", it should be equivalent to the original definition.
Ignoring the sports thing, this seems like largely a semantics debate. I doubt it has any impact on you beyond that. Your entire beef is we want to call trans women “women” and you want to call them “men in dresses”. Newsflash, you’re not going to be able to freeze society or language in the time frame that makes you most comfortable.
You can cover your eyes and ears and tell yourself this is not how things used to be back in your day but time marches on. Today we recognize that how you present yourself to the world may not match the biology with which you were born and language is evolving to describe this, whether you accept it or not.
There it is. If you don't believe what I believe, then you shouldn't be allowed to express your opinion. No debate allowed. To hell with free speech.
To equate transgenderism with skin color is about as unscientific as it gets. The fact is: if Lia Thomas stops taking her medication or hormone therapy, she will revert back to male levels of testosterone. "She" does not have reproductive capacity so her body fat will never be as high as biological females. "Her" skeletal structure is different at birth than a biological female.
Oh, I'm pro free speech. You're allowed to speak whatever ridiculous, unscientific, bigoted thing you want. I, in turn, have the free speech to call you out on it. Conservatives seem to think "free speech" means "no one is allowed to tell me I'm wrong." But then again, they're pretty dumb.
I don't care about her hormone levels. She's a woman. You even refer to her using female pronouns (even though you sometimes put quotation marks around them. Is there a reason for this?). So we seem to agree that she is a woman.
K I it tgh wrote: Today we recognize that how you present yourself to the world may not match the biology with which you were born and language is evolving to describe this, whether you accept it or not.
hear! hear! and looking forward to the day when we recognize that our true ethnicity may not match the one we were born with!
We need about 30-50 MORE of these tranny swimmers beating up on the girls. I want an all tranny finals.
Why do you hate cis women so much?
The reason I want this is because is this an absolute ridiculous travesty. It is totally absurd rule and the only way to get things back on track is by having a completely absurd result.
As long as it's one guy beating girls in swimming, and one guy in track, and one guy in golf it will just be tolerated, it needs to be a complete avalanche and true attack on women's sport before there will be action taken to correct it.
Serious question for you, because you always post on all the transgender threads and seem very passionate about your position. Do you think that the women's division should be eliminated altogether?
If a person believes that divisions should be based on biology, there is justification for having a female division in that biological females have specific, identifiable disadvantages compared to biological males in athletic contests.
But if participation in women's sports is based upon whether a person identifies as a woman, then there is nothing about identifying as a woman that puts a person at a disadvantage athletically. So what is the justification for having a women's division at all?
Today we recognize that how you present yourself to the world may not match the biology with which you were born and language is evolving to describe this, whether you accept it or not.
Lol, mate, it sounds like you never heard about the 1960s, 70s and 80s.
Check out how I presented myself to the world back whilst performing my famous song "Hello, It's Me" on American broadcast TV in 1973:
The reason I want this is because is this an absolute ridiculous travesty. It is totally absurd rule and the only way to get things back on track is by having a completely absurd result.
As long as it's one guy beating girls in swimming, and one guy in track, and one guy in golf it will just be tolerated, it needs to be a complete avalanche and true attack on women's sport before there will be action taken to correct it.
Given that transgender females are less than 1% of the population it’s always going to be just a few athletes. It might be several years before there is another trangender athlete as dominate as Lia Thomas competing in the NCAA. In the last 10 years, she is the only one.
This is enough Letsrun for me. There are people here who have been brainwashed by years of indoctrination by the left to completely disregard logic, biology, science, and common sense.
It's a brain disorder to follow this ideology and belief system. I feel bad for these people, truly, the left has won I'm sad to say.
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