Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

The U.S. (at least) has been supplying arms and releasing intelligence about Russia preparations for an invasion since at least November of last year. That's a great deal more than not "doing anything to prevent" the invasion. The sharing of intelligence played a big role in solidifying the NATO response.

When Biden said the decision to join NATO was "up to Ukraine" it's simply a statement that NATO has an open door policy in which any country can request membership, but it includes meeting the membership requirements. These are upholding democracy, making progress toward a market economy, military forces under civilian control, respecting borders and other countries sovereignty, and progress toward making their military compatible with NATO forces. No one denies that Ukraine has a history of corruption and has significant ultra-nationalist factions and these would have to be resolved to join NATO, but that these issues exist does not preclude them ever being resolved. Likewise Russia could join NATO if they changed their behavior to meet the conditions of acceptance.

It's probably fair to say that Europe (the EU) wasn't terribly invested in Ukraine vs Russia as long as it wasn't a liability, hence NordStream 2 detrimental impact on Ukraine wasn't a primary concern. If Russia had played nice, it still wouldn't be an issue, but Russia going rogue certainly is an issue.

You don't have to agree with Russia's motives. You just have to acknowledge that they are rational and that they exist.

Russia doesn't think Putin is evil. The people like him. They have literally had nothing but dictators since 1917. Russia doesn't compare Putin to JKF or Reagan they compare him to Russian leaders and by Russian standards he's not that bad.

Link:www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/0...

58% of Russians support the war. The media portrays it as if no one in Russia supports the war but Putin himself.

Russians do not view the world as Americans or Europeans do. Expecting them to behave like Americans or Europeans is silly.

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

The U.S. (at least) has been supplying arms and releasing intelligence about Russia preparations for an invasion since at least November of last year. That's a great deal more than not "doing anything to prevent" the invasion. The sharing of intelligence played a big role in solidifying the NATO response.

When Biden said the decision to join NATO was "up to Ukraine" it's simply a statement that NATO has an open door policy in which any country can request membership, but it includes meeting the membership requirements. These are upholding democracy, making progress toward a market economy, military forces under civilian control, respecting borders and other countries sovereignty, and progress toward making their military compatible with NATO forces. No one denies that Ukraine has a history of corruption and has significant ultra-nationalist factions and these would have to be resolved to join NATO, but that these issues exist does not preclude them ever being resolved. Likewise Russia could join NATO if they changed their behavior to meet the conditions of acceptance.

It's probably fair to say that Europe (the EU) wasn't terribly invested in Ukraine vs Russia as long as it wasn't a liability, hence NordStream 2 detrimental impact on Ukraine wasn't a primary concern. If Russia had played nice, it still wouldn't be an issue, but Russia going rogue certainly is an issue.

The media portrays it as if no one in Russia supports the war but Putin himself.

Colin Bomba Harris wrote:

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

The media portrays it as if no one in Russia supports the war but Putin himself.

Bullshift. Strawman. The US media has reported a few instances where a Russian protested the Russian attack on Ukraine and promptly got hauled off to jail/gulag. That's it. There has been absolutely no attempt by US media to pretend that "no one in Russia supports the war but Putin himself." None. Everyone knows the large majority of Russians are in complete support of Putin and Russia on this.

That's been reported widely by US media, including TODAY's comprehensive coverage of Putin's massive war rally. Widely reported by US media that he got 200,000+ Russians to attend the event, all waving flags, singing songs. Photos are included to properly document the magnitude of Russian support for their very popular, duly elected leader Putin.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-03-18/putin-hails-russias-special-operation-in-ukraine-to-thousands-in-packed-stadium

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/putin-appears-big-rally-troops-press-attack-ukraine-83527031

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/03/18/putin-holds-massive-pro-war-rally-in-moscow/?sh=53ce77b62abd

You post strawmans/mens so you can pretend you are making sense. Your credibility is mashed under the weight of your own straw-mush.

Flagpole wrote:

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

The economy was great under Trump.

The economy is bad under Biden.

People with bills and internet connections are aware of this distinction and no amount of partisan fiction will change this.

The COVID recession was COVID not politics. The 2008 recession was a direct result of Democrats demanding loans be given out based on feelings rather than credit score and subsidized the loans with the government. Bush was in office when the damn broke but it was Democrat policy which caused it.

9/11 didn't come out of no where. 50+ years of US meddling in the middle east led to 9/11. Blaming it on the guy in the chair when it happened is absurd particularly when BOTH parties behave the same way. Clinton bombed half the world. Obama carried right on with Bush's wars and toppled the Libyan government and tried to topple the Syrian government. Trump was the first actually anti-war president we've had in generations.

Both parties are terrible. Democrats are terrible AND they want to control every aspect of your life. It's an easy choice.

Wow, you are so f*cking stupid.

1) Trump left office with us in a recession.

2) Trump left office with fewer American jobs than he came into office with, a first since Herbert Hoover.

3) Biden's first year in office, a record number of jobs were created.

4) You are the dumbest, most down voted poster here, and that title was held by Sally, so that's saying something. Go pound sand.

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

Colin Bomba Harris wrote:

Bullshift. Strawman. The US media has reported a few instances where a Russian protested the Russian attack on Ukraine and promptly got hauled off to jail/gulag. That's it. There has been absolutely no attempt by US media to pretend that "no one in Russia supports the war but Putin himself." None. Everyone knows the large majority of Russians are in complete support of Putin and Russia on this.

That's been reported widely by US media, including TODAY's comprehensive coverage of Putin's massive war rally. Widely reported by US media that he got 200,000+ Russians to attend the event, all waving flags, singing songs. Photos are included to properly document the magnitude of Russian support for their very popular, duly elected leader Putin.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-03-18/putin-hails-russias-special-operation-in-ukraine-to-thousands-in-packed-stadium

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/putin-appears-big-rally-troops-press-attack-ukraine-83527031

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/03/18/putin-holds-massive-pro-war-rally-in-moscow/?sh=53ce77b62abd

You post strawmans/mens so you can pretend you are making sense. Your credibility is mashed under the weight of your own straw-mush.

You do realize there's 150 million people in Russia right? Trump can fill a stadium. Would you argue that Trump filling 1 stadium means the majority of Americans support Trump?

The prevailing sentiment in the media is that this is Putin's war. It has been said that getting rid of Putin would solve the problem.

My point was that the war isn't as unpopular in Russia as people here seem to think.

Your response. "Bullshift" the war is very popular in Russia.

lol?