why aren't you personally vaccinated?

you doofus.

I mean really.

Do you need help from someone to get your pants on?

I thought this stuff would be obvious, but I forgot how stupid freedumbers are.

The Amish have basically zero obesity.

"Like the fact that the obesity rate among the Amish is 4%, while the rest of the United States is 26%. "

The Amish skew very young, having very large families compared to the US.

"Amish family size Amish typically have between 6-8 children. "

A thin, young population should have far, far less covid mortality than the US.

but this thin, young population doesn't have less mortality, because it has refused vaccinations and probably masks.

This is too easy. Is there anyone smarter out there?

I'm vaccinated (two shot Moderna back in May). I had a breakthrough case of delta in November, so I didn't bother with the booster (a breakthrough infection is more effective than a booster). I could see a reasonable argument for someone not being vaccinated if they are under 25 or have had a previous infection as there is plenty of data out there to support the risk / reward behavior. It makes sense for everyone outside of those demographics to have a vaccine. Everyone over 25 is an adult and should be left to their own decisions. There is no need for mandates, as the vaccines protect the user, not the public (they are basically worthless against Omicron).

joed|rt wrote:

I'm vaccinated (two shot Moderna back in May). I had a breakthrough case of delta in November, so I didn't bother with the booster (a breakthrough infection is more effective than a booster). I could see a reasonable argument for someone not being vaccinated if they are under 25 or have had a previous infection as there is plenty of data out there to support the risk / reward behavior. It makes sense for everyone outside of those demographics to have a vaccine. Everyone over 25 is an adult and should be left to their own decisions. There is no need for mandates, as the vaccines protect the user, not the public (they are basically worthless against Omicron).

are you against mandatory vaccinations for public schools and the military?

if you are not against those mandates please explain why.

If weight alone was the sole variable in COVID mortality you'd have a point. It isn't and you're still an idiot.

They would also avoid going the hospital so some cases that wouldn't be fatal otherwise would become so and you'd be comparing apples to oranges.

Every topic is over your head. Just quit while you're behind you're embarrassing yourself.

agip wrote:

joed|rt wrote:

I'm vaccinated (two shot Moderna back in May). I had a breakthrough case of delta in November, so I didn't bother with the booster (a breakthrough infection is more effective than a booster). I could see a reasonable argument for someone not being vaccinated if they are under 25 or have had a previous infection as there is plenty of data out there to support the risk / reward behavior. It makes sense for everyone outside of those demographics to have a vaccine. Everyone over 25 is an adult and should be left to their own decisions. There is no need for mandates, as the vaccines protect the user, not the public (they are basically worthless against Omicron).

are you against mandatory vaccinations for public schools and the military?

if you are not against those mandates please explain why.

I mean mandatory vaccinations for smallpox, measles, mumps, etc - all the standard stuff kids and soldiers have to get.

agip wrote:

joed|rt wrote:

I'm vaccinated (two shot Moderna back in May). I had a breakthrough case of delta in November, so I didn't bother with the booster (a breakthrough infection is more effective than a booster). I could see a reasonable argument for someone not being vaccinated if they are under 25 or have had a previous infection as there is plenty of data out there to support the risk / reward behavior. It makes sense for everyone outside of those demographics to have a vaccine. Everyone over 25 is an adult and should be left to their own decisions. There is no need for mandates, as the vaccines protect the user, not the public (they are basically worthless against Omicron).

are you against mandatory vaccinations for public schools and the military?

if you are not against those mandates please explain why.

I mean mandatory vaccinations for smallpox, measles, mumps, etc - all the standard stuff kids and soldiers have to get.

dude, I asked for someone smarter, not someone dumber.

Reading comprehension. Not a trumpist strength.

agip wrote:

Liberals are morons.. wrote:

If weight alone was the sole variable in COVID mortality you'd have a point. It isn't and you're still an idiot.

They would also avoid going the hospital so some cases that wouldn't be fatal otherwise would become so and you'd be comparing apples to oranges.

Every topic is over your head. Just quit while you're behind you're embarrassing yourself.

dude, I asked for someone smarter, not someone dumber.

Reading comprehension. Not a trumpist strength.

Seeing as you are on the internet right now you must be aware that 2/3's of the country thinks Brandon is an idiot...

Not everyone who knows you're stupid is a "trumpist" .... Did you not notice what just happened in November?

Democrats lost counties Biden won by 40 points in 2020...

2022 is going to be very hard on you little fellas... lol...

agip wrote:

agip wrote:

are you against mandatory vaccinations for public schools and the military?

if you are not against those mandates please explain why.

I mean mandatory vaccinations for smallpox, measles, mumps, etc - all the standard stuff kids and soldiers have to get.

Comparing vaccines with a long track record that actually work with COVID vaccines that don't really work are not a apples to apples comparison. I'm not a huge proponent of mandatory vaccines for soldiers, either. Take a look at auto-immune disease rates in veterans compared to the general population, and you will see a dramatic difference (things like ALS, MS, etc.). For school aged kids, COVID vaccines are pretty much unnecessary. In the recent surveillance data from the UK, the COVID death rate among those under 18 (still extraordinarily rare) was higher among the vaccinated (0.3 per 100,000) than among the unvaccinated (0.0 per 100,000).

joed|rt wrote:

agip wrote:

I mean mandatory vaccinations for smallpox, measles, mumps, etc - all the standard stuff kids and soldiers have to get.

Comparing vaccines with a long track record that actually work with COVID vaccines that don't really work are not a apples to apples comparison. I'm not a huge proponent of mandatory vaccines for soldiers, either. Take a look at auto-immune disease rates in veterans compared to the general population, and you will see a dramatic difference (things like ALS, MS, etc.). For school aged kids, COVID vaccines are pretty much unnecessary. In the recent surveillance data from the UK, the COVID death rate among those under 18 (still extraordinarily rare) was higher among the vaccinated (0.3 per 100,000) than among the unvaccinated (0.0 per 100,000).

so you can look at every covid data set showing that covid vaccines cut the chance of hospitalization and death by large amounts...and with a straight face say that covid vaccines don't work.

I will not listen to anything you say, moran, unless you agree that covid vaccines reduce hospitalization and death. Because unless you agree to that, you are just making stuff up and not worth listening to.

Because covid is a joke, if they come out with a "vaccine" for cancer I'll take them every year and hell, even pay for them myself.

I've already said that vaccination makes sense for those who are over 25 that have not had a previous infection, because I acknowledge the data for those demographics. You are the one that is ignoring data.

Please provide compelling data that shows the previously infected or those under 25 are at increased risk of death than the vaccinated, as those are the groups I am arguing should be exempted from mandates (in many countries, they exempt those with a prior infection for 90 days and children from mandates because they follow the data).

Here is the UK surveillance data for the period from week 47 to week 50 (you can find the death rates on page 40, focus on the 18 and under demographic, as that is the one that applies to school aged kids):

As far as reinfections are concerned, the most recent weekly rate comparison for Mesa County was 14.4 breakthrough infections per 10,000 vaccinated individuals, while the reinfection rate was 3.0 reinfections per 10,000 previously infected individuals. A prior infection provides more protection against future COVID than vaccination. Anything beneficial that can be said about vaccination can be said for previous infection as well (and then some).

I will continue to monitor these figures as Omicron impacts the case numbers. Boosters decreased the breakthrough infection rate (from almost 30 breakthrough infections per 10k vaccinated individuals down to 14.4, but will likely uptick as Omciron takes over) Omicron seems to get past everything, but the B-cell and T-cell memory in the previously infected and previously vaccinated should provide some protection against severe disease.

I could write pages on why I'm not vaccinated, but it boils down to this.

1. Limited risk of exposure to the virus. I am retired and live in a rural area with a gated driveway. I have the luxury of choosing whether I want to be around other people. There are days when I don't see another person except for my wife.

2. No long-term data on vaccine risks.

Since long-term data requires a long-term observation, I've decided to wait until April 2022 to make a decision on vaccination. By then, 100 million Americans will have been vaccinated for one year. Is that long enough? Probably not, but if there are no troubling trends at all, this would bode well for the long-term safety of the vaccine.

agip wrote:

just plain, unadulterated, old-fashioned, fashy, commie, dictitatorship, 1984-style lies.

Lies, lies, lies.

and then more lies.

I think it's lies, damned lies, and statistics :)

fisky wrote:

I could write pages on why I'm not vaccinated, but it boils down to this.

1. Limited risk of exposure to the virus. I am retired and live in a rural area with a gated driveway. I have the luxury of choosing whether I want to be around other people. There are days when I don't see another person except for my wife.

2. No long-term data on vaccine risks.

Since long-term data requires a long-term observation, I've decided to wait until April 2022 to make a decision on vaccination. By then, 100 million Americans will have been vaccinated for one year. Is that long enough? Probably not, but if there are no troubling trends at all, this would bode well for the long-term safety of the vaccine.

For #2, even if troubling trends were identified do you think they would broadcast it? Hell no. They are too far bought in to relent or change direction.

Suggesting we do anything other than vax and booster into perpetuity is an internet cancelable offense.

"When liberals and the media (same thing) go apoplectic about me doing something, I generally dig my heels in and resist."

Let's be fair, when a crazy antivaxxer tells us a bunch of conspiracy theory BS, we also generally dig our heels in and resist, do we not?

As logical people we trust the data and build our risk reward profile. No vaccine has ever produced long term side effects, only short term. And we know what those short term effects are so it's up to us to judge if it's worth it.

It IS sad how liberals don't seem to understand their ineffective campaigns. They have effeminate men on vaccine ads....hello? If they were really interested, get footage of some rednecks getting vaxed. They are so unbelievably out of touch you would almost think they're trying to turn people off vaccines.

Supposedly kids are a danger to older people, lots of unmasked, not-locked down, unvaccinated kids would equal lots of dead old people as a percentage of the population. Are there high deaths of old people as a percentage of the population amongst the Amish?

Mr. Agip, You shouldn't just fudge everything your way.

Do shut up about antivaxers. Someone not having a vaccine doesn't become an antivaxer, and most would never align with a movement. I have no interest in the vaccine because the science hasn't supported the aggressive roll out. My immunity has kept me going after getting Covid a year ago (small amounts of T cells remain in bone marrow). Meanwhile those taking the vaccine knock out their toll like receptors and keep having to take boosters. My reading of the stats is that most in hospital are vaccinated.

LDoc wrote:

Do shut up about antivaxers. Someone not having a vaccine doesn't become an antivaxer, and most would never align with a movement. I have no interest in the vaccine because the science hasn't supported the aggressive roll out. My immunity has kept me going after getting Covid a year ago (small amounts of T cells remain in bone marrow). Meanwhile those taking the vaccine knock out their toll like receptors and keep having to take boosters. My reading of the stats is that most in hospital are vaccinated.

LMAO!