Whoops, messed up those quotes a lil bit
Whoops, messed up those quotes a lil bit
This thread is ludicrous as runners we know how difficult it is to run 13:30 we are underestimating how good 13:30 is how are sprinters with going to run 13:30 when the vast majority of letsrunners (even though the run multiple miles a week) can't and never will get a sniff of 13:30 .
I still know who wrote:
roho the ho wrote:
So we have Wayde, Kerley, and Norman, three of the best 400 runners ever, who can all run sub 9.95. According to you guys, the best that the greatest 800 runners of all time can do is 10.65 at the very best (most barely sub 11).
Moving from the 400 to the 800 and you lose seven tenths in 100m speed? Give me a break.
Yes. There’s a huge difference between a 400 and an 800. 10.65 would be very, very, very optimistic for Rudisha, Coe, etc.
I'll agree we don't have a good enough 400 time from Rudisha or Coe to ensure sub 10.5. However, any reasonably coordinated elite runner could get down a solid start from blocks in a few months if they had a proper sprints coach and put in the time. So I definitely still wouldn't count out Rudisha, especially since he's 6'3". Coe couldn't do it.
What are your thoughts on Gil Roberts (10.12) and Rai Benjamin (10.03), who both have a slower 400 pb than Korir?
I can say with 100% certainty Korir could go sub 10.5. However, I'm not sure what his chances are of going 13:30, let alone simultaneously with a 10.5.[/quote]
How can you possibly be 100% sure of that? It's an absurd statement. Korir is a 44.2 400 runner at his best, but one of the few elite 400 runners swho is a 400-800 guy. That for starters means he is not in the league of Norma, Kerley, WVN etc over 100.
As someone who coaches 10.5 guys, I would say better than 50% chance Korir cannot run sub-10.5 from blocks FAT. More likely around 10.7. Sub-10.5 possible, but unlikely.
OK - having watched Korir's 400m WC final in 2019, including his block technique and mechanics, I would say sub-10.50 is very unlikely. The 10.5 guys I know would be 2-3m ahead after 40. And I don't see Korir having a better top speed either.
Karma Police wrote:
As someone who coaches 10.5 guys, I would say better than 50% chance Korir cannot run sub-10.5 from blocks FAT. More likely around 10.7. Sub-10.5 possible, but unlikely.
OK - having watched Korir's 400m WC final in 2019, including his block technique and mechanics, I would say sub-10.50 is very unlikely. The 10.5 guys I know would be 2-3m ahead after 40. And I don't see Korir having a better top speed either.
1. Prove that you're a coach.
2. As a "coach", you should understand that people have the capability to improve on things. Someone (like Korir) who has obviously never/very rarely trained block starts (and probably not even with a good sprinting coach) has the potential to improve massively if they dedicate a few solid months to that aspect of the race...let alone actually training 100m speed.
3. Even without any additional specific training, on a day when he's in 44.2 shape, given good conditions, a 1.0 m/s tailwind, an above average start (for him), I'd say it's highly likely he'll go sub 10.50.
I remember reading an article from 2009 where Bekele stated his 100m PR is 11 flat. Who knows if this was from blocks, flying or if he just estimated a number for the interview but I could buy it. Unlike most distance runners he had some powerfully built legs.
My guess would be he’d be more like 11.5 from blocks though
Who CAN do this?? wrote:
Alan Webb would probably come closest, I can see him getting 10.80 from a sprinters start with no blocks. If you gave Saruni some time I think he could get somewhere around 13:45 and 10.70, Brazier somewhere around 13:50 and 10.90, a prime Makhloufi maybe 10.75 and 13:45, Rudisha 10.90 and 13:45, Coe 10.95 and 13:50, Kerr 10.80 and his 13:23 PB, Centro would probably break 11 at his best, I'll give him 10.95. Korir should be the obvious choice but when you look at the way he runs his 400m races, he's more at the bottom of the list. Always uses his 800m strength to his advantage in the final 65 metres. Given the same conditions as the rest of the athletes I named, he could run 10.65 maybe, considerably ahead, but would probably run 13:50 in the 5K all the same. A prime Augustine Choge could run a 10.85. According to some YouTube channel Hocker closed his final 100m in 11.14 in NCAA indoors but that's obviously fake, still giving him the nod for sub 11. A bit surprised that Timothy Cheruiyot isn't in this conversation. I would have thought some idiot would bring up the fact that he went out in 52 and still ran 3:28 last year, but I'm pleased that he's not being talked about. He'd be lucky to break 11.35. He's still got more speed than Jakob though, I'll give him that. Jakob can run 11.8. Ovett's form immediately says no to sub 11, but not in such an extreme way like Jakob Ingebrigtsen, he could go 11.05-11.1 at his prime. Hicham El Guerrouj should be able to run 10.75 so maybe he's the best male 100/5000 runner of all? Lagat wouldn't be too far behind, should run 10.90. Morceli ran his 1:44.7 800m best at 21, 4 years before his prime so I'm guessing he could get 10.90-10.95. 2020 Wightman could go 11.20 and 13:50. Elliot Giles can run sub 11, 10.85, but his aerobic endurance needs some work to get sub 13:30, and combine that with rather stiff form and you'll probably get a 13:55 from him. Longest distance Lewandowski has raced is 2K and he was fine at that, ran 4:57. With a year of work, I can actually see him getting close to 13:30, but he can probably run only 11 flat in the 100. The other Pole, Adam Kzcshot, has really great speed - in the latter stages of a fast 800m race, only showing his extroadinary anaerobic/aerobic conditioning. 11.15 and 13:50 for him. So yeah, I'm done.
TL;DR: no one.
WTF! This is all over the place.
For a start, very few of those listed could break 11.0 FAT for 100m from blocks or a standing start.
But the idea that Kerr or Makhloufi could sprint 100m faster than Coe is ludicrous. Coe has a 45.5 relay leg on his CV and would regularly run under 22.0 for 200m reps in training at the peak of his powers. In 81 I'd say Coe could have run 10.8 - 11.0 for 100m. He certainly had greater leg speed than either Mackhloufi or Kerr (far to big to run anything better than 11.5). I would also expect Coe to beat Rudisha over 100m, as again Rudisha is much taller and would take a while to get into his stride. They would probably be pretty even over 200m but Rudisha would win out over 400m.
The idea that Rudisha would be 5 secs fater than Coe over 5000m is equally ridiculous. Rudisha couldn't even match Coe over 1000m, let alone the 1500m. I'd be surprised if the Kenyan could run under 14:30. He was a pure, specialist 800m runner.
And you really think EL G would be 0.3secs faster than Ovett over 100m!?
And the nonsense continues.
A bit off-topic I guess, but would anybody know about how fast Viren, Quax, and Dixon ran the final 100m in the '76 Olympic 5000?
Once again, this is all ridiculous.
The 100m needs to be specified: FAT or flying?
FAT: no way. Absolutely not ever. Not even close.
I am the guy who TOLD you (not guessed) that Farah couldn’t do under 13 FAT. Go back to that thread, you will see that his time was slower than even the claimed 13s.
Ditto Symmonds, etc. Some guys like maybe Bekele and 800/1500 types might be a bit faster, but none are breaking even 11.00 FAT.
And even more ludicrous is a sub-10.5 FAT guy going 13:30...or 14:30...or 15:30...or 16:30...or 17:30...or 18:30...etc etc etc. You guys have ZERO IDEA. The closest you get to understanding this is to watch sub-10.5 decathletes run the 1500. They would be proportionally WAY WORSE in a 5000.
That this thread has endured is hilarious. Or sad. Or boring, for me.
Oh, and not only are sub-13:30 types not breaking 11.00 FAT, they’re not breaking 12.00 FAT. Very few are breaking 13.00 FAT, and even then, only just. And only maybe. And only guys like Bekele.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Oh, and not only are sub-13:30 types not breaking 11.00 FAT, they’re not breaking 12.00 FAT. Very few are breaking 13.00 FAT, and even then, only just. And only maybe. And only guys like Bekele.
I agree with your previous comment about there being no 10.5 FAT runners and sub 13:30 5k runners, but what you've stated above is nonsense.
There would have been quite a few athletes that could run sub 12.0 and 13:30 in the same season. Certainly middle distance runners like Ovett and Aouita could do it.
I would suggest that had there been an incentive to accomplish such a feat in the same season, Coe would have been capable (or atleast very close) of a sub 11.0 FAT 100m and a 13:30 5k in 1981.
He beta the likes of Cova, Coghlan and McLeod over distances longer than 5k in 79 and 80, and he was in better shape in 81. That same season he was running 21.7 over 200m in training, and the first 100m in the 4 x 400m relay (link below) where he split 45.6, was covered in c. 11.0 from an almost stationary start. I'm certain he could have managed a 10.9 FAT 100m from blocks and something around 13:30 during that season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhZGonCBaOMSprintgeezer wrote:
Oh, and not only are sub-13:30 types not breaking 11.00 FAT, they’re not breaking 12.00 FAT. Very few are breaking 13.00 FAT, and even then, only just. And only maybe. And only guys like Bekele.
Yeah the Geezer has jumped the shark here. Said Aouita averaged under 13 seconds per 100m for 800m, and now the Geezer is making it sound like breaking 13 would be so challenging. You have now gone too far Geezer.
OozmaKappa wrote:
Nick Symmonds is the only right answer.
At least most people speculated could do one of the two, Symmonds couldn't do either.
10.5 is pretty fast, so probably not (the fast twitch / slow twitch ratio probably wouldn't work out). Among Americans, your best bet would be guys that played football or ran fast 400 times in high school that ran distance later in college. Guys like McMullen (RIP), Berryhill, Robinson, Webb, Lassiter, etc. Internationally, you would look to doped up Moroccans like Ramzi and El Guerrouj.
Peder wrote:
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Oh, and not only are sub-13:30 types not breaking 11.00 FAT, they’re not breaking 12.00 FAT. Very few are breaking 13.00 FAT, and even then, only just. And only maybe. And only guys like Bekele.
Yeah the Geezer has jumped the shark here. Said Aouita averaged under 13 seconds per 100m for 800m, and now the Geezer is making it sound like breaking 13 would be so challenging. You have now gone too far Geezer.
Aouita? Not a chance in hell. Would be maybe 12.60-12.80 FAT from blocks. 100m splits in an 800 have zero bearing on sub-10.5 FAT 100m performance. Zero. It is a totally different mechanic.
I would venture to guess that only a handful of other people on here understand how fast 10.50 FAT from blocks is. SacTrack and a few others.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Peder wrote:
Yeah the Geezer has jumped the shark here. Said Aouita averaged under 13 seconds per 100m for 800m, and now the Geezer is making it sound like breaking 13 would be so challenging. You have now gone too far Geezer.
Aouita? Not a chance in hell. Would be maybe 12.60-12.80 FAT from blocks. 100m splits in an 800 have zero bearing on sub-10.5 FAT 100m performance. Zero. It is a totally different mechanic.
I would venture to guess that only a handful of other people on here understand how fast 10.50 FAT from blocks is. SacTrack and a few others.
Now you are moving the goalposts again. You implied that it would be so challenging for 13:30 guys to break 13 seconds and now you concede that Aouita could have done so with ease. The truth is Aouita could have run 11.3 for sure. No doubt.
What would Juantorena have looked like over 5k?
It's very very tough wrote:
What would Juantorena have looked like over 5k?
He could have for sure broken 15 but it is not clear to me how much under 15 he would have gotten, probably 14:30ish would be possible.
Coe 21.7 200m in training is meaningless. That is hand, and not FAT. In point of fact, I used to do around that time for repeats, when I wasn't sub-11. And a relay hand split is equally meaningless, from an "almost stationary start".
A "fast" guy like Coe, you're looking at an exceptionally good time of around 11.3-11.8 FAT from blocks, if he is lucky and if everything works out perfectly. The FASTER he is at 5k, the SLOWER he will be at 100m. Understand that. Aerobic capability not only has nothing to do with 100m performance, it is actually wasteful of the body's resources. It is only useful for recovery while training. Yes he has a CP system but it is not trained, nor is his neurology trained.
You guys don't get it. 10.50 FAT from blocks is not slow. It is fast enough to require technique and ability, and it requires both turnover and stride length.
YES sub-10.50 FAT from blocks is possible by guys who are not top-shelf sprinters, who do not "look the part"--i.e. they are thin, wiry white guys. An excellent example would be Jonathan Edwards--slight of build, but sub-10.5 for real...but look at that spring, look at that power:weight ratio. HUGE. But, at the same time, I guarantee you that he was going nowhere near 13:30, which is really fast--fast enough that it would be well out of his reach, even though he would seem at first glance to have a distance-favorable build.
This is an insane thread, but hilarious! I wonder how many here have been either sub-10.50 FAT from blocks, or sub-13:30. I have. I think you need to have been in one of the two places to understand that this would be utterly impossible.
And sub-13:30 guys here?
Peder wrote:
You implied that it would be so challenging for 13:30 guys to break 13 seconds and now you concede that Aouita could have done so with ease..
It doesn't help you to mis-quote what I wrote to suit your purpose, when what I actually wrote is in the thread for all to see!
joed|rt wrote:
Internationally, you would look to doped up Moroccans like Ramzi and El Guerrouj.
Not even close to sub-10.5
Not even close. EPO is of no aid to a FAT 100m, only as a training recovery aid. It does not directly affect the performance, it just amplifies training--training that would be totally counter-productive to 13:30.