Runner knew marathon leaders were running off course, doesn't stop them: "I’m not going to shout. It’s not my job.’’

rojo wrote:

As I said before, my runners could hear me yelling splits to the 200 meter mark when I was coaching.

Rojo, I like you and you get too much hate on this site. But there is a big difference between you calling out splits on the sideline and a guy almost 20 miles into a race.

In the two marathons I did, by that point, raising my hand to wave at someone cheering for me or grabbing a cup of water was almost too much to handle. No way I’d have any desire to scream at the top of my lungs for someone else making a mistake.

If he'd been right behind them and not said anything, then you might have a point. But he was 20 seconds back. Shouting loud enough to be heard takes energy, and I'm not going to detract from my own race for someone else's mistake. It happens. Get over it.

This isn't good sportsmanship, but it's not bad sportsmanship either. And it's certainly not "sportsmanship at its worst".

The guy's quotes don't make him come off well, but I do not think it's fair to fault him for not yelling 20 seconds back. He's racing a marathon.

If I'm racing a marathon, I'm not going to stop or otherwise over-exert myself because of someone else's mistake.

I would, however, do my best to alert the next official I saw of what happened if I could do so in a reasonable way. That's hard to do when running 10+ miles per hour.

If they were in a pack or very close , and not 20 seconds apart, I think that's a little different. Yell and run over and try to sort it out.

The fault here lies primarily with the race officials. Perhaps you could fault what's in the guy's heart, but I don't think he should have done anything differently. The race officials and the pace bike screwed this up.

Runners have strange ideas about sportsmanship. If a football player gets disoriented while going after a fumble and ends up picking up the ball and taking off toward the wrong end zone, would anyone expect the other team to help the ballcarrier to get turned around and headed in the right direction?

The biggest problem I see here is the reliance on volunteer labor for crucial jobs. If you can't get a volunteer to put adequate time and effort into learning the course, you need to pay someone to lead the race or provide some other way finding mechanism. "Our volunteer screwed up" isn't a good excuse. If a volunteer can't or won't do the job, don't use a volunteer in that role.

surveysays wrote:

Things I'm not buying:

1) That it's impossible to hear someone yelling 100m away during a race.

2) That it's exhausting for a 2:15 guy to yell "HEY!" a couple times.

3) Most of all, that his response to what happened was anything less than being a prick.

Only on LetsRun could this guy be criticized.

I don't think anyone on this thread is saying that a competitor should say 'F those guys, I'll let that volunteer mislead them so I can win the big prize. Muhahahaah!'

1) If they stopped and started walking on the side of the road, should you stop and check on them? No, your job is to run as fast as you can and get to the finish line.

2) If you're both kicking it in and the other guy is usually faster than you, should you help him up if he slips and falls? No, your job is to run as fast as you can and get to the finish line.

3) If lightning strikes them and no one else is around, should you stop at 30k into a marathon?

Yes, a life-threatening or serious injury takes precedence. Also, get under cover as soon as possible.

Short of a situation like #3, its not your job to play race marshal or local guide for the directionally challenged. Your job is to be focused on running your race and doing the best you can. If you can help someone who is going off-course without compromising your race, then by all means be a human being and do it. That is entirely optional.

To the idiots who claim that it is easy to shout 100 m from someone who is not facing you and to be heard and understood, you've clearly never been in a big race. Even if there were no spectators/passers-by, you don't know what the ambient noise levels were, and you don't know when he realized something was up. Regardless of your social justice tendencies or whatever misguided inclinations you have, you can't blame the winner here. First the race is at fault, then the two runners who went off-course, not the winner.

Racing sucks sometimes and everybody deals with things out of their control. Sometimes you have a bad day for no good reason, Sometimes it's hot when you thought it would be moderate/cool. Sometimes you're in the middle of a pack in XC, and you step in a hole that you couldn't have seen. Sometimes you're contending in a crit race and some idiot's water bottle ends up under your wheel. I've been in races where the lead pack gets taken the wrong way and it sucks. So enough sh!tty things happen in life that when unexpected fortune comes your way, you should take it In the same stride that you accept bad luck.

I usually appreciate your efforts on here Rojo, even if you're infinitely mockable sometimes. Raining on this guy's parade is a d!ck move. Especially when the two runners were fairly compensated for the race's mistake.

fisky wrote:

. How do you cross a river without thinking, "Hmm, I don't remember crossing the river here!"

I've done it. I was spaced out on a long run in KC once and I ended up in an entirely different state and an entirely different KC. I was not a race marshal though, just a very scared runner on a very loud interstate.

Not only are you wrong about the size of races I've run, as it ranges from BFE to Berlin, but I've even done THIS EXACT RACE.

Which of my 3 points did you take issue with? All you did in your response was go on a tangent about when you should help another runner and complain that rojo rained on the parade of a prick.

colder and wiser wrote:

At 2:15 marathon pace (5:08/mile), 20 seconds is 104.5 meters. At that distance, yelling isn't going to do any good.

I edged out a guy in a race last weekend who missed a turn 400m from the finish line. Fortunately I was pretty close to him when he missed the turn so I could yell and get him back in the race. But if he had been 100m ahead of me, he would have never heard me, and he would have added enough distance at that point that he would have finished 100m behind me.

Agreed. I’m not really sure what the 3rd place guy that eventually “won” was supposed to do

briswiss wrote:

Agreed. I’m not really sure what the 3rd place guy that eventually “won” was supposed to do

He was expected to apologize for being the "wrong" social class, namely a white male that won.

I have been in that situation in a 10k. The guy in front of me made a wrong turn and I shouted "hey", which got his attention and he turned back while I waited and settled back in behind him.

Sportsmanship.

Karma too, as I won the race.

That dude could have at least not had that disgusting grin on his face when he crossed the finish line.

I was in a similar situation at a cross country meet in college.

But it was one teammate leading that went off course and my other teammate wound up winning the race.

Pence did not celebrate "in the face" of the two Kenyans. He was said to be "far back" at the time of the mishap, so he could not have yelled loud enough for the two to hear. in addition it states clearly in USATF technical rules "It is the responsibility of the runner to know where the course is.." Plus the Race Director said "The course is clearly marked"

No issues with what happened. it's not like the winner was a 2:40, he was a legit 2:15

runnER/DR wrote:

20 seconds at the pace they were going is over 100 meters. Think about that. Not a chance they would hear him.

He definitely put his foot in his mouth saying it wasn't his obligation. Shouldn't have said that, not because it isn't true but it makes him look smarmy.

I'm amazed by how many people are taking the "about 20 second behind" claim at face value and saying, "He wouldn't have been heard at that distance--i.e., more than a hundred meters.

Hah. He could have been 10 seconds behind. We don't know--unless there's video.

Which would be extremely interesting video, given how this has played out.

Come on LR's. Find that video.

don't use a volunteer wrote:

Runners have strange ideas about sportsmanship. If a football player gets disoriented while going after a fumble and ends up picking up the ball and taking off toward the wrong end zone, would anyone expect the other team to help the ballcarrier to get turned around and headed in the right direction?

The biggest problem I see here is the reliance on volunteer labor for crucial jobs. If you can't get a volunteer to put adequate time and effort into learning the course, you need to pay someone to lead the race or provide some other way finding mechanism. "Our volunteer screwed up" isn't a good excuse. If a volunteer can't or won't do the job, don't use a volunteer in that role.

This player has teammates who are yelling for him to turn around though...

anti.marxist wrote:

Ridiculous. What's he supposed to do, go run them down and force them to get back on course? It's the responsibility of every runner to know the course. Do most take time to study it? No, but that doesn't absolve them of that responsibility. The post will earn some virtue-signaling woke points though.

All those things are true, but they're beside the point.

What most people would hope to see from the winner in this kind of situation, apart from him having made a vocal effort to alert them and everybody else to the error in real time, would be a little humility and remorse at having won in this unfortunate way. We want a sportsman. The comment Rojo quoted isn't sportsmanlike.

Period.

Don't make it more complex than it is.