bubbasudz wrote:
Does the US need to rethink the Olympic qualifying process to stay competitive with the rest of the world ? Seems like a lot of athletes peaked for trials just to get to Tokyo and are flat.
Top 3 positions is fine as there is something to aim for. We have to figure out how to hold on to fitness. Jamaicans go faster or just as fast after their trials. We go slower after our trials.
I wonder if NCAAs has anything to do with the timing of the trials.
Anyone notice Bol's 49.1 anchor sneaked The Netherlands into the final? Superb leg.
booj wrote:
birdbeard wrote:
"Through both the rounds, I think Wightman looked as good as anyone. Hocker has looked great as well, and now people can be quiet about his PR I suppose.
I would say Tim and Jakob remain the favorites and have looked great, but outside those two I like Wightman for bronze, with Kipsang, McSweyn (if it’s really fast), and Hocker also in the mix. I would throw Kerr in there but he looked very bad in the first round. Could just be a bad race."
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I almost agree! Weightman has surprised me. He seems to be back at his best.
The following have been the best through the heats and semis:
Weightman, Kipsang, Hocker, Timothy and Jakob.
I see Timothy having a dilemma: If he goes out as in Doha he is risking to play it in the hands of Jakob who will be able to use him as a pacer.
If Timothy goes with the field he is risking to play it in the hands of the sprinters.
Jakob seems to be back at his best after his illness. I maintain him as my gold favorite.
I have been positive on Hocker since his 3:50 mile indoors. It is nice to see how well and cool he has raced
I think it’s less of a Selina for Tim with McSewyn in the race. Even if Tim doesn’t push it like in Doha, McSewyn will make it honest since that’s his strength and he’s shown he’s willing to do it
Is Trey Okay? wrote:
What do you mean little guts? That's ignorant. These guys have been proven performers. I love Norman but he still hasn't performed well on the world stage, in Doha or here.
You run the race that gives you the best chance. Has nothing to do with guts. Those guys usually come crawling over the line because they forgot it's not a 300 meter race.
Yes I understand it sounds negative. But Gardiner and Zambrano ran that race in such a conservative style that said to me they just called BS on anyone in the field being good enough to run 43.6 or faster. The gold was completely for the taking if Norman was close to his USC self or early 2019 self. In 2016 for instance James and Merritt went after it believing WVN might not come back and they'd have to really run fast. Today, the two favorites said "ah well" that fast start is cute but you're going to completely fall apart at the end. You can only do that if you assess that your challengers are just not worthy of that much respect.
Gardiner 100% can go out much harder and try to run 43-low, but today he correctly assessed that Norman was not a true contender.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Is Trey Okay? wrote:
What do you mean little guts? That's ignorant. These guys have been proven performers. I love Norman but he still hasn't performed well on the world stage, in Doha or here.
You run the race that gives you the best chance. Has nothing to do with guts. Those guys usually come crawling over the line because they forgot it's not a 300 meter race.
Yes I understand it sounds negative. But Gardiner and Zambrano ran that race in such a conservative style that said to me they just called BS on anyone in the field being good enough to run 43.6 or faster. The gold was completely for the taking if Norman was close to his USC self or early 2019 self. In 2016 for instance James and Merritt went after it believing WVN might not come back and they'd have to really run fast. Today, the two favorites said "ah well" that fast start is cute but you're going to completely fall apart at the end. You can only do that if you assess that your challengers are just not worthy of that much respect.
Gardiner 100% can go out much harder and try to run 43-low, but today he correctly assessed that Norman was not a true contender.
Sounds like you are trying to say Gardiner (and Zambrano) ran 'smart', not gutless.
kmaclam wrote:
Sounds like you are trying to say Gardiner (and Zambrano) ran 'smart', not gutless.
I think 'smart' and 'gutless' are synonyms.
Didn't say gutless just said their strategy required little guts...and it didn't. At least in 2019, Kerley and others had Gardiner's respect enough to have him move at 200 and run a 43.38. This year, nah just run smart and with no risk and cruise through 300.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Is Trey Okay? wrote:
What do you mean little guts? That's ignorant. These guys have been proven performers. I love Norman but he still hasn't performed well on the world stage, in Doha or here.
You run the race that gives you the best chance. Has nothing to do with guts. Those guys usually come crawling over the line because they forgot it's not a 300 meter race.
Yes I understand it sounds negative. But Gardiner and Zambrano ran that race in such a conservative style that said to me they just called BS on anyone in the field being good enough to run 43.6 or faster. The gold was completely for the taking if Norman was close to his USC self or early 2019 self. In 2016 for instance James and Merritt went after it believing WVN might not come back and they'd have to really run fast. Today, the two favorites said "ah well" that fast start is cute but you're going to completely fall apart at the end. You can only do that if you assess that your challengers are just not worthy of that much respect.
Gardiner 100% can go out much harder and try to run 43-low, but today he correctly assessed that Norman was not a true contender.
I just take offense at that gutless comment. Norman was not the favorite going into the final, he was one of them and anyone who focuses on one man in a 400 is looking for problems. You should be focusing under the assumption that anyone can win. You're concerned with your lane and nothing else and running the best race that will give you the best result. It's not like distance races where there are multiple moves and runners can control what the others do.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Didn't say gutless just said their strategy required little guts...and it didn't. At least in 2019, Kerley and others had Gardiner's respect enough to have him move at 200 and run a 43.38. This year, nah just run smart and with no risk and cruise through 300.
I think you meant what you wrote, but we'll forget about that. However you meant it is a wrong analysis of how a 400 is run. Everyone can go out faster, but the 400 is about conserving your strength as much as you can before the last straight. Once the bear jumps on you, it's physically impossible to get him off you.
Plus Cherry ran Norman down too. He ran his normal race, just like the others who beat him.
Is Trey Okay? wrote:
I just take offense at that gutless comment. Norman was not the favorite going into the final, he was one of them and anyone who focuses on one man in a 400 is looking for problems. You should be focusing under the assumption that anyone can win. You're concerned with your lane and nothing else and running the best race that will give you the best result. It's not like distance races where there are multiple moves and runners can control what the others do.
I mean maybe it's semantics, but I said "little guts" not gutless. They had verrry safe race plans. Gardiner in particular did not respond to Norman's start. Zambrano comes late, and until more than one guy finishes faster than him he'll keep with his style. Yes you run your own race, and I don't blame Gardiner at all. Norman didn't give him any reason to run anything but a safe race that would put him in position to win in high 43 time. So, I'm not blaming him I'm just disappointed in Norman that his star has fallen so far that a guy who can run 43.4 knows that going out cautiously and running a steady 43.8 or 43.9 will beat him.
I missed the Women's 4x400 but saw many great performances today. This has been a great Olympics. So many great performances and WRs and ORs by athletes from many countries.
Is Trey Okay? wrote:
I think you meant what you wrote, but we'll forget about that. However you meant it is a wrong analysis of how a 400 is run. Everyone can go out faster, but the 400 is about conserving your strength as much as you can before the last straight. Once the bear jumps on you, it's physically impossible to get him off you.
Plus Cherry ran Norman down too. He ran his normal race, just like the others who beat him.
You're oversimplifying the 400 as well, too in my view. Yes you don't want to go out too fast. But if you're the class of the field you can run an aggressive 200 split and/or turn that will test just how fast you can go. Or you can run steadily through 300 knowing that your once top rivals aren't legit and will fade in the home stretch.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Is Trey Okay? wrote:
I just take offense at that gutless comment. Norman was not the favorite going into the final, he was one of them and anyone who focuses on one man in a 400 is looking for problems. You should be focusing under the assumption that anyone can win. You're concerned with your lane and nothing else and running the best race that will give you the best result. It's not like distance races where there are multiple moves and runners can control what the others do.
I mean maybe it's semantics, but I said "little guts" not gutless. They had verrry safe race plans. Gardiner in particular did not respond to Norman's start. Zambrano comes late, and until more than one guy finishes faster than him he'll keep with his style. Yes you run your own race, and I don't blame Gardiner at all. Norman didn't give him any reason to run anything but a safe race that would put him in position to win in high 43 time. So, I'm not blaming him I'm just disappointed in Norman that his star has fallen so far that a guy who can run 43.4 knows that going out cautiously and running a steady 43.8 or 43.9 will beat him.
Spin it whatever way you want but you're wrong. You don't look at one guy and think "Wow, he's out fast, I need to run "safe". You stay with what got you there, as I said it's not a distance race where they have time to make changes in pace during the race itself. They ran their races like they always have, Norman effed up by going out too fast as opposed to what he should have done. He was the one who tried something different and you see what happened.
Gardiner:
"It feels amazing. My first Olympic Games didn't go well for me (he didn't make the final at Rio 2016) but this one here, I'm cherishing this moment. Olympic champion," Gardiner said. "When the gun went off I stumbled a bit coming out, but I recovered, I kept it moving, and with 200m to go, I started to push a little bit. And 100m to go, I gave it all I've got.
"I came across the line and saw my name on the big screen and I was in first place. I'm just happy."
As you see, he mentions nothing about even seeing anyone else, he didn't know he won until he saw the screen.
https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/en/news/steven-gardiner-wins-men-s-400m-gold-medal
Sorry for being adamant, but this is my event. Norman is needed for the 4 x 400, they have a strong team but no big legs on there. Need solid races from all four legs.
Let's agree to disagree, I respect your take here and appreciate that this hasn't gotten nasty.
And if Gardiner is saying his dawdling 200 is more due to a stumble, then that's OK. Either way most of my frustration is due to Norman because I think back in his heyday of 2018-early 2019 he goes out like that and finishes in 43.5. Now he gets passed by many guys with inferior talent.
As far as the 4x400m, a week ago I would've said it was a lock. But then I saw our 4x100m's complete failure, the mixed relay's disappointing showing and just the general stench of our men's track team.
Cherry I trust, Benjamin as well (if he's on it), Norman I trust but don't want him on leadoff or anchor. Who are we putting for that final leg (and likely 3rd spot)? Ross after that prelim? I mean I'd be open to Holloway honestly, I know I'm going to get a fired-up leg there.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Let's agree to disagree, I respect your take here and appreciate that this hasn't gotten nasty.
And if Gardiner is saying his dawdling 200 is more due to a stumble, then that's OK. Either way most of my frustration is due to Norman because I think back in his heyday of 2018-early 2019 he goes out like that and finishes in 43.5. Now he gets passed by many guys with inferior talent.
As far as the 4x400m, a week ago I would've said it was a lock. But then I saw our 4x100m's complete failure, the mixed relay's disappointing showing and just the general stench of our men's track team.
Cherry I trust, Benjamin as well (if he's on it), Norman I trust but don't want him on leadoff or anchor. Who are we putting for that final leg (and likely 3rd spot)? Ross after that prelim? I mean I'd be open to Holloway honestly, I know I'm going to get a fired-up leg there.
I think Kerley is the best option. Experienced and I'm certain that not only does he still have 400 strength he should be motivated after botching that handoff.
Benjamin has run dozens a relay legs at USC and he anchored in Doha so I've got complete confidence in him on that leg. But you're right, the coaches seem to have really messed up the relay teams (as Carl Lewis said) but they make the decisions. There's a little more room for error, we still put together the best foursome but as far as I know they may put Felix on there, wouldn't surprise me.