Official 2021 Gateshead DL Discussion Thread

Phil Ken Sebben wrote:

I feel like we don't see many Ethiopian pacesetters on the circuit. Americans, Europeans, Kenyans... but Ethiopians?

Had never thought about that...very strange. One thought: it seems like these Kenyan groups are happier to send B-level/young athletes to run in smaller races and/or pace in Europe. It feels much rarer to see a middling Ethiopian athlete making the rounds in Europe.

I have seen veiled comments by various international athletes on Instagram alluding to the fact that they don’t believe that Katir is legit. There seems to be a general consensus among most of these guys that there’s something fishy going on. However, in Spain most people believe in him full heartedly and without reservation.

Bob Tahri, The former French steeplechase star, commented during his commentary during the race on French TV channel L’équipe, tonight, that he had serious concerns about the legitimacy of the Spaniard’s improvement. The irony is that when Bob Tahri ran his best 1500 m time of 332 at age 35 nobody raised an eyebrow.

Bob Tahri progress - as mentioned what I thought most incredible was when he ran 332 at age 35 after a long career in the steeple chase and even running 10,000 m and even half marathon on the roads. Result of 332 at age 35 absolutely astonished me, because one of the first things that goes with age is speed and this contradicted all the normal expectations with regard to aging.

The point I’m making is that Bob made astonishing results at a late age and the Spanish runner is making astonishing results now young but he’s an outlier and I believe he’s legit.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Pacesetter to run a 4:27 mile, yep this is Diamond League England all right

Why do they get two of these a year is the question.

What are you talking about? Gateshead replaced a previous cancelled DL.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

Men’s 3k seems most likely to come down to McSweyn trying to run away from Katir in the last 400m. I’ll say this time he does it, winning 7:29.2 to 7:29.9 with Krop 3rd in 7:32.

once again...

Taste the deception and shut it

cramberrys wrote:

Hoppel I have no hope for. Murphys win at the USA trials is probably still 800 performance of the year so I'm not counting him out just yet.

How is that performance of the year, unless you are heavily biased?

Amos ran faster to win Monaco over much better competition.

macdaddy, the wrote:

Obscure lucky medalist wrote:

Yes. Harris on, Hoppel off.

The datapoints were all there in June

Which data points? From what I can tell, Hoppel was 3-0 against Harris this year until today's meet.

- USATF Golden Games

- Olympic Trials Semi

- Olympic Trials Final

lol Golden Games??

Don't count a semi in head-to-head racing tallies, noob.

Ghost1 wrote:

The irony is that when Bob Tahri ran his best 1500 m time of 332 at age 35 nobody raised an eyebrow.

332 is impressive but human....

How many runners can compare to 12:50, 3:28 and 7:27?

Komen, El G, Jakob, Gebrselassie

For example: Said Aouita PRs (7:29, 3:29 and 12:58). Mo Farah PRs (7:32, 3:28, 12:53). Bernard Lagat PRs (7:29, 3:26, 12:53)

Ring a bell?

Ghost1 wrote:

I have seen veiled comments by various international athletes on Instagram alluding to the fact that they don’t believe that Katir is legit. There seems to be a general consensus among most of these guys that there’s something fishy going on. However, in Spain most people believe in him full heartedly and without reservation.

Please share some of these trash comments, unless you are just making this up.

Ghost1 wrote:

I have seen veiled comments by various international athletes on Instagram alluding to the fact that they don’t believe that Katir is legit. There seems to be a general consensus among most of these guys that there’s something fishy going on. However, in Spain most people believe in him full heartedly and without reservation.

Bob Tahri, The former French steeplechase star, commented during his commentary during the race on French TV channel L’équipe, tonight, that he had serious concerns about the legitimacy of the Spaniard’s improvement. The irony is that when Bob Tahri ran his best 1500 m time of 332 at age 35 nobody raised an eyebrow.

Go check out the "Katir is dirty AF" thread... that manager of his is a piece of work.

Semiler wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

I'm not seeing that like you guys are. He went way down the track but once he headed back Butchart gave him daps, Mortimer came to congratulate him (but was chased off by the photographers), then Rowe and Dever made an effort as he headed to the tunnel even as he was kinda not seeking out others.

Officials shuffled him to the tunnel when approaching the rest as they observed a depressed climate at the finish line.

You are an idiot.

Semiler wrote:

332 is impressive but human....

How many runners can compare to 12:50, 3:28 and 7:27?

Komen, El G, Jakob, Gebrselassie

For example: Said Aouita PRs (7:29, 3:29 and 12:58). Mo Farah PRs (7:32, 3:28, 12:53). Bernard Lagat PRs (7:29, 3:26, 12:53)

Ring a bell?

I'm not Rojo with this but the supershoes are a part of this. I'd find it hard to believe that the shoes do not help 1 second per kilometer or so. Maybe a touch more. 7:27 is the new 7:30, and 12:50 is the new 12:55.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Semiler wrote:

332 is impressive but human....

How many runners can compare to 12:50, 3:28 and 7:27?

Komen, El G, Jakob, Gebrselassie

For example: Said Aouita PRs (7:29, 3:29 and 12:58). Mo Farah PRs (7:32, 3:28, 12:53). Bernard Lagat PRs (7:29, 3:26, 12:53)

Ring a bell?

I'm not Rojo with this but the supershoes are a part of this. I'd find it hard to believe that the shoes do not help 1 second per kilometer or so. Maybe a touch more. 7:27 is the new 7:30, and 12:50 is the new 12:55.

Florence: Ran last 2000m of the race solo 2:30/km.

Monaco: Lane 2 and 3 in curves, change of speed, impressive kick off of a 3:30 pace race

Gateshead: Lane 2 in curves, change of speed, impressive kick off of a 7:30 pace race

Even if the shoes are to blame for a few seconds, his odd races counts a few secs too the opposite direction.

WRs are looming guys. Buy popcorn for Tokyo!

Obscure lucky medalist wrote:

macdaddy, the wrote:

Which data points? From what I can tell, Hoppel was 3-0 against Harris this year until today's meet.

- USATF Golden Games

- Olympic Trials Semi

- Olympic Trials Final

lol Golden Games??

Don't count a semi in head-to-head racing tallies, noob.

So…. No data points?

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Semiler wrote:

332 is impressive but human....

How many runners can compare to 12:50, 3:28 and 7:27?

Komen, El G, Jakob, Gebrselassie

For example: Said Aouita PRs (7:29, 3:29 and 12:58). Mo Farah PRs (7:32, 3:28, 12:53). Bernard Lagat PRs (7:29, 3:26, 12:53)

Ring a bell?

I'm not Rojo with this but the supershoes are a part of this. I'd find it hard to believe that the shoes do not help 1 second per kilometer or so. Maybe a touch more. 7:27 is the new 7:30, and 12:50 is the new 12:55.

This is correct. As everyone should know by now the shoes are also athlete-dependent and vary in performance from athlete to athlete no matter the form, strike etc. For 1500m I'd say that the shoes help by 0-2s, the less the faster you go. For 3k, where the pace is slower and you go for longer, I'd say 3-5s is fair.

Obscure lucky medalist wrote:

cramberrys wrote:

Hoppel I have no hope for. Murphys win at the USA trials is probably still 800 performance of the year so I'm not counting him out just yet.

How is that performance of the year, unless you are heavily biased?

Amos ran faster to win Monaco over much better competition.

I'm a big Amos fan ever since London 2012 and I've always said he's the best after Rudisha effectively retired. He would have won 2019 Worlds without that injury. So I'm super happy he won Monaco in that fashion. I just thought that 1:43 from Murphy with the negative split (?) was really really good. Now though his form seems quite a bit worse.

I'd say 3-5 seconds(at the elite level) is reasonable for a 5k but it could still be an overestimation

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

michiganrunner55 wrote:

Put Katir in a WR paced 3000m he definitely goes 7:22/ 7:23

I think the once unthinkable 3k World Record could very well go down. No doubt super-spikes are helping a bit (perhaps 2-3 seconds).

Right now you have Wale (7:24 indoors), Kejelcha (7:26 outdoors ~ 2:23 last K doing all the work), Barega (great 10K in ETH Trials, good 1500 results), Jakob (3:28 PB, 12:48 5K), Katir (7:27 with 2:23 last k and 55-second last lap), Kiplimo (7:26 3k last year), Cheptegei (5K WR), Justin Knight (12:51.9 5K, good 1500 results). There's probably a few more in this mix too (Ahmed, El Bakkali, Kimeli, McSweyn to pace at least ha).

Get this group out there in 4:55-4:56 and I'd love to see what would happen.

Maybe in a Diamond league race with pacesetters after the Olympics but if too many good guys are in there they will just race each other so hard to say if it would happen or not. But definitely a sub 7:25 race could happen

cramberrys wrote:

Obscure lucky medalist wrote:

How is that performance of the year, unless you are heavily biased?

Amos ran faster to win Monaco over much better competition.

I'm a big Amos fan ever since London 2012 and I've always said he's the best after Rudisha effectively retired. He would have won 2019 Worlds without that injury. So I'm super happy he won Monaco in that fashion. I just thought that 1:43 from Murphy with the negative split (?) was really really good. Now though his form seems quite a bit worse.

Maybe just maybe Murphy is sandbagging. He also after the trials said he used as motivation when letsrun counted him out before the trials. We will see…