Tom “Tinman” Schwartz and Drew Hunter/Tinman Elite have parted ways

DC Wonk wrote:

I agree that we have yet to see what Hunter is really capable of. AlSal is the devil to everyone here, but I have no doubt the first thing he would do with Hunter is change his form. That would require a lot of work and commitment but it could be done. Then start building the speed work as a 5k runner. I imagine just like with his other stars, AlSal would make Hunter build up to a much faster mile time than probably even Hunter thought about. Not to mention all the additional non-running workouts and conditioning, plus preset diet.

It may be extremely difficult to improve his form significantly if he has structural defecits such as scoliosis, a limb length discrepancy, structural joint restrictions, etc. He may already have found his most efficient strategies to compensate for these issues.

The higher than usual threshold training sounds much like Ingebrigsten's training, which seems to have worked out well for them. Sounds smart to me. What's the alternative? replacing threshold with harder intervals?

Raymond wrote:

The higher than usual threshold training sounds much like Ingebrigsten's training, which seems to have worked out well for them. Sounds smart to me. What's the alternative? replacing threshold with harder intervals?

The Ingebrigstens also developed 400m speed and decent form.

They don't get injured every 5 minutes lurching around the track.

oh no no no wrote:

Raymond wrote:

The higher than usual threshold training sounds much like Ingebrigsten's training, which seems to have worked out well for them. Sounds smart to me. What's the alternative? replacing threshold with harder intervals?

The Ingebrigstens also developed 400m speed and decent form.

They don't get injured every 5 minutes lurching around the track.

Henrik has been fairly injury prone the last 3/4 years. Also didn’t Filip bomb at Euro Indoors due to an injury?

From the posts I've seen on Ingebrigsten training, they do a hill session a week and up to 4 threshold sessions. Tinman does hill sessions but doesn't do half the threshold work that Ingebrigstens do. Tinman will generally do 1 threshold type session and 1 session at a bit faster than threshold.

shea it aint so wrote:

Nobody has mentioned the possibility of Adidas stepping in and forcing the change. Perhaps they felt the need to protect their investment?

I'm slightly disturbed to say that I think they might be coaching themselves at this point. At the very least, their new coach does not actually meet with them in person and hasn't changed the workouts.

1. A vid shows Hunter explaining a workout

2. Hammer and Axe: they think they know how to coach

3. Frat house vibes have increased.

Truly inmates running the asylum.

There’s gotta be more to the story, we shouldn’t be quick to assume any reasoning. I am coached by Coach Schwartz and have had a great experience under his guidance. He genuinely cares, is quick to respond, has immense passion for the sport, and is as knowledgeable (if not more) as any top coach in regard to physiology of training.

I do largely the same training as them and have never been hurt so it bothers me to see that their injuries are blamed on his training. There’s so much more to it as others have mentioned - nutrition, sleep, strength work, shoes, etc.

Logic would say to stick with what has led to improvements in performance...

Spot on. There's a lot of white noise that these boys are focusing on, rightfully so. They've created a cash cow in branding and marketing, but at some point they have to be tired of being the butt of the joke as an elite group that underperforms.

TrackFan55 wrote:

oh no no no wrote:

The Ingebrigstens also developed 400m speed and decent form.

They don't get injured every 5 minutes lurching around the track.

Henrik has been fairly injury prone the last 3/4 years. Also didn’t Filip bomb at Euro Indoors due to an injury?

...and Jakob was also injured this fall. People like to cherry pick facts to support their bias.

At some point all of these “layered” workouts are too cute by half.

So a Tinman workout is like some 600s, some 200s, then two miles at tempo

Meanwhile Ben True is doing 12 x 600 at 1:33 -1:30

Guess who’s going to win in a race

Herein lies the problem: you think Salazar or Julian or Schumacher coach amateurs? No. Tinman was unable to stop his side hustle and dedicate 100% to his professional assets. You are not reading enough into this.. full commitment is expected. I agree with the poster that said Salazar would start working on Hunter's mechanics immediately. Every runner at the highest level have asymmetries. You work with that and ensure all forces are being applied in the proper direction. Maybe with Salazar's clearance, Hunter becomes his prime project. Maybe that's Alberto's future, like those CEOs that are hired to rebuild and save companies. I do hope Schwartz does not allow adidas to keep the Tinman name and if they want it to hire the proper legal team to evaluate worth, and cut Tom a check for $2-$5M (that's what I value it at as a Brand) if they want to keep that name and equity. It's a simple exercise of the amount of merchandise they sell yearly, how much social media presence/KPIs are hitting the group, etc.

DoNotAssumeAnything wrote:

There’s gotta be more to the story, we shouldn’t be quick to assume any reasoning. I am coached by Coach Schwartz and have had a great experience under his guidance. He genuinely cares, is quick to respond, has immense passion for the sport, and is as knowledgeable (if not more) as any top coach in regard to physiology of training.

I do largely the same training as them and have never been hurt so it bothers me to see that their injuries are blamed on his training. There’s so much more to it as others have mentioned - nutrition, sleep, strength work, shoes, etc.

Logic would say to stick with what has led to improvements in performance...

Idk why Drew Hunter's form is so hyper-focused on by Letsrun. Plenty of other elite runners (e.g. Clayton Murphy) have gait that looks weird but nobody says anything about it or blames it for their stunted development. I doubt that many people on here actually have the trained eyes and knowledge to pick apart his stride and specifically list what flaw causes what issue/inefficiency (I do not either). And if the athletes do have really bad form that needs to be fixed, should we put all that blame on Schwartz? I would think that Chris Lee, their strength coach on staff, would probably be more in charge of that, right?

DoNotAssumeAnything wrote:

I am coached by Coach Schwartz

I do largely the same training as them

This is a problem.

A philosophy is transferable to the masses but not a day to day exact schedule. Hansons have proven this for as long as Drew Hunter has been alive. I’m sure that Tom had that same exact idea.

The problem is that when the philosophy is not sound it all crumbles like a house of cards.

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but you're thinking 17s improvement (2.1%) is possible in 6 months simply by Drew changing his shoes.

But Sam Parsons improving 30s (3.6%) over 4 years out of college is "improving a lot"?

Han Solo wrote:

DoNotAssumeAnything wrote:

I am coached by Coach Schwartz

I do largely the same training as them

This is a problem.

LMAO exactly! Tinman was a fraud as a pro coach.

Why would you fire your coach, but keep his personal nickname as your team name? I don't believe it.

Few have ever gone 3:30 13:00 27:00 60:00 from the USA side of things. Hunter is imho a mess with his biomechanics; Schwartz is not a massage therapist or a movement therapist or a physical therapist... You can’t keep the ball rolling if you can’t handle the big boy workouts.

Another thing... from what I’ve heard.. the rest of those guys never ever paid Tom Schwartz a dime ... a bunch of spoiled kids who have been more of a drain on Tom and Drew imho than a positive; not a penny did Parsons or the rest of those freeloading bums showed zero remuneration during the time Tom was coaching the entire group. That entire group profited from Schwartz & D. Hunter and here we are... both Schwartz & Hunter scrambling around in the spring of an Olympic year. The blame imho should be placed on mommy Hunter meddling with her 24yo son’s career and a bunch of leeches with Parsons leading the demise

Raymond wrote:

I think Tinman is a very knowledgeable coach, but attracts negativity because of his personality.

which is funny because this thread is all about how he is such a great person, but whenever i hear him talk he comes off as an arrogant prick and seems difficult to talk to. i do believe he cares deeply for his athletes; however, calling him a great guy seems like a stretch and just shows people are clearly sympathetic towards him right now....and i would agree that TME seem to be screwing him over right now and handling the situation overall very poorly.