If Chauvin is found not guilty, are people justified in rioting?

totorious wrote:

Not CNN wrote:

Okay, but why change an approach that has had one death in how many years, and that death had a subject that was loaded to the gills with an extremely dangerous drug.

Because, as I said in my first post, our society is not completely on board with kneeling on unconscious civilians. That's why there will be unrest if it is found to be legal.

Was GF unconscious when the restraint began?

Are most people in society okay with drug use, driving while impaired, drug dealers, and resisting the police?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not CNN wrote:

Exactly! But for EMS to work on someone they have to be subdued, right?

You mean suffocated, dont you? How "subdued" does he have to be, lying on the ground, handcuffed and not offering resistance?

No suffocation with that restraint.

He needs to be not resisting to receive medical care.

Not CNN wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Bingo. They die when a policeman keeps his knee on their neck for 9'29". But most policemen don't do that.

Most criminals don't act like GF did or abuse drugs like he did. The average criminal knows they are done once handcuffed and don't resist going into a police car, so a long restraint typically isn't needed.

So you're a criminologist as well as an MD? You know how most criminals will behave - even though a fair whack of them may be juiced out of their brains even more than Floyd.

Not CNN wrote:

totorious wrote:

Because, as I said in my first post, our society is not completely on board with kneeling on unconscious civilians. That's why there will be unrest if it is found to be legal.

W

Was GF unconscious when the restraint began?

Are most people in society okay with drug use, driving while impaired, drug dealers, and resisting the police?

Why are you trying to have an argument with me? Do you think that will lead to our society being okay with police kneeling on unconscious civilians? Or do you just want to argue?

Not CNN wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You mean suffocated, dont you? How "subdued" does he have to be, lying on the ground, handcuffed and not offering resistance?

No suffocation with that restraint.

He needs to be not resisting to receive medical care.

Righty. So let's kill him so he isn't resisting - and then we can give him medical care. Do you really have an IQ of 40?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not CNN wrote:

Most criminals don't act like GF did or abuse drugs like he did. The average criminal knows they are done once handcuffed and don't resist going into a police car, so a long restraint typically isn't needed.

So you're a criminologist as well as an MD? You know how most criminals will behave - even though a fair whack of them may be juiced out of their brains even more than Floyd.

I'm neither, but have seen hundreds of videos and reviewed thousands of case reports. Always comes down to a lack of compliance.

These George Floyd threads are an indictment of American society. The prejudice that runs through them goes back years in the US - centuries, in fact - and is like the experience of wading through vomit on the pavement.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not CNN wrote:

No suffocation with that restraint.

He needs to be not resisting to receive medical care.

Righty. So let's kill him so he isn't resisting - and then we can give him medical care. Do you really have an IQ of 40?

This is where you and I differ. You think what DC did was wrong and feel he killed GF. I think what DC did was wrong but he had no intention of killing him. You think the drugs had nothing to do with it, and I think the drugs played a major part in this case - from how GF acted, and how he reacted, and how his body reacted.

Armstronglivs wrote:

These George Floyd threads are an indictment of American society. The prejudice that runs through them goes back years in the US - centuries, in fact - and is like the experience of wading through vomit on the pavement.

I would feel the same way about this case if all involved were white. Can you say the same?

Not CNN wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

These George Floyd threads are an indictment of American society. The prejudice that runs through them goes back years in the US - centuries, in fact - and is like the experience of wading through vomit on the pavement.

I would feel the same way about this case if all involved were white. Can you say the same?

You are missing a crucial dimension, that white men with power - the police - yet again killed an unarmed black man. The US has a painful history of this. It is why so many black Americans took to the streets last year in protest. They have had enough.

At one level, yes, it is true that in terms of the criminality of the act it makes no difference that Chauvin killed a black man rather than a white man; in either instance it is an awful crime. But how likely is it that Chauvin and his fellow officers would have treated a white person as they did Floyd?

totorious wrote:

Not CNN wrote:

W

Was GF unconscious when the restraint began?

Are most people in society okay with drug use, driving while impaired, drug dealers, and resisting the police?

Why are you trying to have an argument with me? Do you think that will lead to our society being okay with police kneeling on unconscious civilians? Or do you just want to argue?

Just trying to get you to understand that you are twisting the facts. Our society would be substantially better off if facts nattered and were reported on accurately.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not CNN wrote:

I would feel the same way about this case if all involved were white. Can you say the same?

You are missing a crucial dimension, that white men with power - the police - yet again killed an unarmed black man. The US has a painful history of this. It is why so many black Americans took to the streets last year in protest. They have had enough.

At one level, yes, it is true that in terms of the criminality of the act it makes no difference that Chauvin killed a black man rather than a white man; in either instance it is an awful crime. But how likely is it that Chauvin and his fellow officers would have treated a white person as they did Floyd?

The police kill so few people in all of the interactions that they have, that when a situation like this actually happens in makes world wide news. Yet black on black crime takes more people by far, yet you want to focus on one cop who looks bad dealing with someone with what a 3 -4x fatal level of Fent in his system who resisted arrest and was unwilling to listen to the police and sit in the back of a police car.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not CNN wrote:

[quote]Armstronglivs wrote:

These George Floyd threads are an indictment of American society. The prejudice that runs through them goes back years in the US - centuries, in fact - and is like the experience of wading through vomit on the pavement.

I would feel the same way about this case if all involved were white. Can you say the same?

You are missing a crucial dimension, that white men with power - the police - yet again killed an unarmed black man. The US has a painful history of this. It is why so many black Americans took to the streets last year in protest. They have had enough.

At one level, yes, it is true that in terms of the criminality of the act it makes no difference that Chauvin killed a black man rather than a white man; in either instance it is an awful crime. But how likely is it that Chauvin and his fellow officers would have treated a white person as they did Floyd?[/quote]

Look at the stats. Don't comply, increase your chances you will die. Race is not the factor, it's compliance.

Thousands of African Americans know otherwise, which is why they have protested. They are 3 times more likely to be killed by police than whites, despite being only 12% of the population.

I get the feeling Don Lemon Wants Chauvin to be found Guilty.

I get the feeling Steven Colbert wants Chauvin to be acquitted.

Aren't Celebrities supposed to at least act Neutral?

55YO wrote:

Riots? No.

Protests? Yes.

The guy is certainly guilty of a wrongful death. It wasn't premeditated murder, but it was something on down the scale where he is guilty of a crime in causing the death of Floyd.

How did Chauvin cause the death of Floyd? Did you see the autopsy report that HRH posted on the bottom of page 2 of this thread? Here it is:

Quoting directly from the autopsy report by the Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner, Andrew Baker:

“No life-threatening injuries identified —

“A. No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae

“B. No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures

“C. No scalp soft tissue, skull, or brain injuries

“D. No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries

“E. Incision and subcutaneous dissection of posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks, and buttocks negative for occult trauma”

In short: No bloodshot eyes and no trauma to any part of Floyd’s neck.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not CNN wrote:

and you would be the one who would blame the cops for not restraining a person having a seizure, or reaction to drugs and flops around and smashes their face into the pavement. Do you have Monday morning quarterbacks in your country?

No, I wouldn't. It wasn't a job for the police but for medical professionals. They are less likely to murder someone.

What? Medical professionals deliberately kill about 700,000 innocent unborn human beings in the USA annually. Bizarrely, BLM calls for direct abortion though in the USA it is the leading cause of death of blacks (though not always tabulated that way). I understand that you live in New Zealand which just made direct abortion much more accessible. Who does those killings? Ah, yes, medical professionals. But they don't usually call it "killing;" rather, they usually call it "health care."

gjjy wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

No, I wouldn't. It wasn't a job for the police but for medical professionals. They are less likely to murder someone.

What? Medical professionals deliberately kill about 700,000 innocent unborn human beings in the USA annually. Bizarrely, BLM calls for direct abortion though in the USA it is the leading cause of death of blacks (though not always tabulated that way). I understand that you live in New Zealand which just made direct abortion much more accessible. Who does those killings? Ah, yes, medical professionals. But they don't usually call it "killing;" rather, they usually call it "health care."

And I'm sure that some killings that get classified as "abortions" are due to infanticide of newborns that survived botched abortions. Those are "murders" in most jurisdictions but they rarely get exposed.

douglas burke wrote:

I get the feeling Don Lemon Wants Chauvin to be found Guilty.

I get the feeling Steven Colbert wants Chauvin to be acquitted.

Aren't Celebrities supposed to at least act Neutral?

Did you feel they have been neutral commenting about past/current Presidents?