Who wins in a marathon? 2008 OT Ryan Hall or 2016 OT Galen Rupp?

I know we're talking about "on the day" and that Hall had a very good trials that year, but jeez man, Rupp got a bronze medal. He won Chicago. 2nd at Boston. He's on a different level than Hall. Hall never came close to winning a major or medaling on the world stage. Prime marathon Rupp (2016/17) beats prime marathon Hall like 8 times or more out of 10.

Also, some of Hall's frequent dropping out and withdrawing from races after that oly trials seemed a bit vague ("due to fatigue" etc...). Rupp had what could have easily been a career-ending injury (with surgery for achilles, Haglund's deformity), yet came back to a top level. I remember some letsrun posters smirking that Rupp was training with high school boys while working to regain fitness after the surgery (as in, "training with high school boys? He'll never be a serious runner again."). I read that and thought "what powerful determination that he is sticking with this very difficult rehab/recovery, and not succumbing and letting himself get discouraged and give up - I hope he succeeds" - and he did! The mental/competitive side of Rupp seems very impressive; other than that day at Oly trials, Hall's less so. Perhaps because it was such a contrast to the rest of his career, I and other posters express wonder at Hall on that one day, just amazing!

birdbeard wrote:

I know we're talking about "on the day" and that Hall had a very good trials that year, but jeez man, Rupp got a bronze medal. He won Chicago. 2nd at Boston. He's on a different level than Hall. Hall never came close to winning a major or medaling on the world stage. Prime marathon Rupp (2016/17) beats prime marathon Hall like 8 times or more out of 10.

Yes, I agree! Rupp has not only the talent, but also the consistency and competitiveness, and has accomplished so much!

birdbeard wrote:

I know we're talking about "on the day" and that Hall had a very good trials that year, but jeez man, Rupp got a bronze medal. He won Chicago. 2nd at Boston. He's on a different level than Hall. Hall never came close to winning a major or medaling on the world stage. Prime marathon Rupp (2016/17) beats prime marathon Hall like 8 times or more out of 10.

So what if Rupp got a Bronze medal? I suppose you think that Centro with his gold medal is proof that he would beat any American at 1500m in his prime? This is not clear at all to the intelligent.

Guys since when did we judge a guy's fitness based on how fresh he looked???? Anyone see Kipchoge at the end of 2:01:39, or during the last 1k of his sub-2:00???? Hall ran a 62:00 off a 67:00, and because he was stoked during the last 1k people think he could've run way faster and even sub-2:03 on a flat course????

4 loops+ of Central Park hills, constantly up or down, in 2:09, with 1:02 2nd half feeling ridiculously easy and coasting, and the old shoes, was worth a lot faster, as confirmed by 2:06:17 in London and 59:43, again easy unpushed, in Houston.

fact checker 230987 wrote:

WinnytheBish wrote:

People are too stupid to remember what the premise of this thread is about and keep comparing whole careers of these athletes.

You are too stupid to realize it's a flawed premise. You compare one race where Hall was going 100% to a race that Rupp was giving 60%.

2008 OT hall vs. 2016 OG Rupp and Rupp wins by several minutes.

So stupid ...lol watch the tape. Hall isn't going 100% either.

The 2008 Olympic marathon was very warm. People always hold that race against Hall but if you’re not someone that is not used to that heat, its going to be hard for you to run well. Also, found this recap for those who forgot how impressive that trials run was:

The miles 11 and 12 were run at 4:55 pace up front, and then at 20 kilometers, hit in 1:03:22, Ryan Hall dropped his hat and began to race. Hall's next mile was 4:52, hitting the half way point in 1:06:17. Hall ran 4:44, 4:53 and 4:53, with Dathan Ritzenhein, Dan Browne, Abdi Abirahman all there, but straining. I saw the pack at 25 kilometers, just under 1:17, and Browne had moved into the lead, but only for an instant.

Ryan Hall took the race over, running 4:59, 4:56, then 4:32 for the 18th mile, the fastest EVER recorded in the park! Dathan had gone with him, and while he had fallen back from Hall, Ritzenhein looked good at 18.

Then, it got ugly. Ryan Hall let it all hang out, as he blased 4:41 for mile 19, 4:34 for mile 20, and 4:40 for mile 21! If anyone was going to get him, that 13;35 three mile just put them on notice. I was in a spot to watch Ryan flying along the downhills and on the large screen, he looked invincible with one lap to go.

WinnytheBish wrote:

fact checker 230987 wrote:

You are too stupid to realize it's a flawed premise. You compare one race where Hall was going 100% to a race that Rupp was giving 60%.

2008 OT hall vs. 2016 OG Rupp and Rupp wins by several minutes.

So stupid ...lol watch the tape. Hall isn't going 100% either.

I think you need to watch the tapes. Hall started his move right after half way. He started to hammer with a bunch of miles sub 4:50 and even 4:40, even though he was way clear of any competition.

Rupp didn't make a move until the 23rd mile. Rupp didn't even peak for his race. He used it as a tempo run. He was still training for the 10k. Look at him go around this turn towards the end:

Fact checker.

My money is on Hall, but maybe Rupp would have done it that day.

But, clearly you haven’t watched both races or are so stubborn and insecure that you are willing to look foolish to be right in your mind. But, to most everyone else you still look foolish.

Jokerrr wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

I know we're talking about "on the day" and that Hall had a very good trials that year, but jeez man, Rupp got a bronze medal. He won Chicago. 2nd at Boston. He's on a different level than Hall. Hall never came close to winning a major or medaling on the world stage. Prime marathon Rupp (2016/17) beats prime marathon Hall like 8 times or more out of 10.

So what if Rupp got a Bronze medal? I suppose you think that Centro with his gold medal is proof that he would beat any American at 1500m in his prime? This is not clear at all to the intelligent.

Centro would have a great shot against any American in their prime. For sure. But that was not the point. Rupp’s bronze is just one data point showing how much better he was than Hall in their primes in the marathon, combined with winning Chicago, being competitive in Boston, winning Prague, etc.

Hall beat Ritz and Brian Sell handily? Yeah, that’s cute. Maybe he had a day of days in 2008, but there is a wealth of info that suggests Rupp was on an entirely different level in his marathon prime.

otter wrote:

Fact checker.

My money is on Hall, but maybe Rupp would have done it that day.

But, clearly you haven’t watched both races or are so stubborn and insecure that you are willing to look foolish to be right in your mind. But, to most everyone else you still look foolish.

Foolish is picking a guy who finished 10th in a weak marathon to beat a guy who got 3rd against the best marathoner all time (days after finishing 5th in the 10k.

The only reasons are "I was there that day, it was magical" lol. Your nostalgia isn't worth a damn, you are detached from reality.

...and an American trials record that shows Hall was too.

birdbeard wrote:

Jokerrr wrote:

So what if Rupp got a Bronze medal? I suppose you think that Centro with his gold medal is proof that he would beat any American at 1500m in his prime? This is not clear at all to the intelligent.

Centro would have a great shot against any American in their prime. For sure. But that was not the point. Rupp’s bronze is just one data point showing how much better he was than Hall in their primes in the marathon, combined with winning Chicago, being competitive in Boston, winning Prague, etc.

Hall beat Ritz and Brian Sell handily? Yeah, that’s cute. Maybe he had a day of days in 2008, but there is a wealth of info that suggests Rupp was on an entirely different level in his marathon prime.

Who did Rupp beat in 2020? Andi straight from the nursing home and Jake Riley who never was within arms reach of Rupp. Beating Dathan like that is way more impressive. Brian Sell was a good marathoner as well, as good as Jake Riley at least.

briswiss wrote:

The 2008 Olympic marathon was very warm. People always hold that race against Hall but if you’re not someone that is not used to that heat, its going to be hard for you to run well.

If you recall, Wanjiru went out at something like World Record pace. I don't think Hall was prepared for it or that he was ever in the lead pack.

otter wrote:

Fact checker.

My money is on Hall, but maybe Rupp would have done it that day.

But, clearly you haven’t watched both races or are so stubborn and insecure that you are willing to look foolish to be right in your mind. But, to most everyone else you still look foolish.

He indeed looks foolish. Beating 2008 OT Hall by “several minutes” is beyond idiotic.

WinnytheBish wrote:

Who did Rupp beat in 2020? Andi straight from the nursing home and Jake Riley who never was within arms reach of Rupp. Beating Dathan like that is way more impressive. Brian Sell was a good marathoner as well, as good as Jake Riley at least.

Who is talking about 2020? In 2016 OT Rupp beat Meb - an olympic marathon silver medalist and who also was 4th in the Olympic marathon in 2012.

In the Olympic Games, Rupp was only 80 seconds behind Kipchoge who had a 2:03:05 PR at the time and who would go on to run 2:01:39 for the world record in 2018. You may also remember Kipchoge for being the first human to run sub 2 in the marathon.

He was also 10 seconds behind Lilesa who has run 2:04 and 59:22 in the half.

So we are going to forget that Rupp didn't have a sniff at a sub 2:09 until 2018, right?

fact checker 230987 wrote:

The only reasons are "I was there that day, it was magical" lol. Your nostalgia isn't worth a damn, you are detached from reality.

The point is not nostalgia, the point are how fast the splits of the last two laps; in particular considering that there is 250ft climbing in each lap. Its is very unlikely that 2016 OT Rupp, as you stated, did not even peak for the race, could have dropped Hall.

BTW yes, Rupp in 2016 beat Keflezighi, a 41 year-old marathoner with a PB of 2:08:37. I love Keflezighi, a great athlete, but he was way past his prime.