I don't think it makes much sense to draw too many conclusions from a track race in November. Btw, pro runners should be in a heavy strength phase right now and for Drew not having a sprint finish makes sense. It is not uncommon for pros to get beat by up and comers in these situations.
Looks like the top two both had solid performances - not sure why people want to tear down either one. Sets them up nicely for sub 13:20 in their upcoming 5000m. Nico did not run great, but I usually don't put much weight on freshmen slumps because they have to adjust to new training.
kiptooisjuiced wrote:
NERunner53 wrote:
When did 2 seconds in a 3k become smoking someone? Why does someone's good race have to be framed as putting down another run who also seems to have had a good race? Why is a small, non representative (look at their fans/views/merch) of the general running community, subset of LRCers so dang jealous of all things Tinman?
I mean Drew hasn’t lost to someone his own age or younger that’s American since??? I don’t even know... his freshman year in high school? It’s a big deal that he’s been pro for over four years and got destroyed over the last 800. Luis is a fantastic runner, he has been improving every year which is hard because he is already so elite.
The fact that people on here have been saying it’s strange Drew is with Tinman still is telling. It doesn’t matter if this is just letsrun. The running community is small and people know that he should be elsewhere. Now I don’t know the specifics of his contract’s expiration, but I will say that he should make a decision whether he wants to be a world-class runner or a national-class one.
Luis looked great. We’ll see how the two run in their 5k in two weeks. I’m expecting around 13:20 for both.
Based on 742 and 744 I would expect 1310 to 1312 in the 5K at least and possibly even faster.
NJ fan wrote:
westsouthrunner wrote:
Did you guys just start following professional running?. it is not like Drew should be setting PR's in November. A Top collegiate runner most years can beat a professional runner in a november 3k. Unless we are talking about a world champion or something of that caliber. That is all there is to it. Grant was not in this race so to bring him in the conversation means you are hating and trying to diminish Drew's race...which again was a 3k in NOVEMBER.
I get that drew and Grant will always be compared because they are from the same era of high school running but are you guys literally waiting to do this every time drew touches the track?
Also Drew definitely had a better high school career than Grant. Age is irrelevant there too.
Who cares if it's November? Hunter wouldn't have raced if he wasn't ready. He had done a bunch of time trials prior to this race, too. He signed up to run a 5k in under 13:15 in a couple weeks so he has definitely been preparing.
Grijalva was training for 8k/10k and still beat Hunter in the 3k. Most people would say the 3k is Hunter's best event.
One thing we can all agree on is that Tinman is the worst "pro" coach in the country.
Well if Professional runners end goal is to race well and make olympic teams being sharp in November is actually pretty irrelevant. However it seems that for your purpose Hunter losing here gives you a chance to bash his team/coach/career...for a race in NOVEMBER. If he won with the same time it seems like somehow that would still be a negative based off the last 5 pages of remarks. I believe it is much more important to see how he looks in a few weeks in the 5k with other professionals if we are going to really form an opinion on his relevance in comparison to some of his peers. 7:44 is a solid time for this time of the year.
TrackCoach wrote:
I don't think it makes much sense to draw too many conclusions from a track race in November. Btw, pro runners should be in a heavy strength phase right now and for Drew not having a sprint finish makes sense. It is not uncommon for pros to get beat by up and comers in these situations.
I can't believe how DUMB everyone is. This isn't just a "November race" where he isn't ready. DREW HUNTER IS LITERALLY GOING FOR THE OLYMPIC A STANDARD IN A COUPLE WEEKS. He is at his peak fitness and he got smoked by a collegiate athlete.
He has been preparing all summer and all fall to try running 13:13.50 in the 5k in December. He signed up to be in the sub 13:15 group. If he hits that mark, then he doesn't have to chase times this Spring - he can just focus on the trials.
Grant Fisher already attained the Olympic A standard this summer, along with many other runners. Drew Hunter is BEHIND and if he can't hit the standard in December he is in big trouble.
There is only one team that has any guys who have run the A standard in this strange year.
This all-time college list is a guide for how good these 3k times are:
1. Henry Rono 7:32.1h 1978 (WR)
2. Rudy Chapa 7:37.7 1979
3. Alistair Cragg 7:38.59 2004
4. Edward Cheserek 7:40.51 2016
5. Rono 7:41.5 1978
6? **Luis Grijalva 7:42.something 11/2020**
7. Grant Fisher 7:42.62 2019
8. Morgan McDonald 7:42.76 2019
9. Lawi Lalang 7:42.79 2013
10. Ryan Hill 7:43.08 2012
11. Henry Rono 7:43.0 1978
12. Marc Scott 7:43.37 2017
13. Luis Grijalva 7:43.73 2/2020
14. Alberto Salazar 7:43.79 1979
15. Rono 7:43.9 1978
Wasn't Chapa a soph for that?
Actually, he was a junior I think nevermind
John Macardle wrote:
There is only one team that has any guys who have run the A standard in this strange year.
WRONG. Kipchirchir, Jenkins, and Emmanuel Bor ran the standards indoors. And out of that one group you mentioned, there are 4 from USA who ran the standard (Lomong, Fisher, McGorty, and Jager).
I believe some from 2019 will carry over - Ben True, Chelimo, Kincaid, Centro and Erassa. So there are currently 12 USA runners with the standard.
There will be several more that hit the standard in December so if Hunter doesn't get it he will be far behind. He will have to chase the standard while everyone else can just peak once for the trials.
A great run by both. To run low/mid 7:40's is awesome for the last week of November. I'm not sure what they're preparing for being so fit at this time, but they are running well. Also, no need to bash Drew or Tinman Elite, Drew looks to be healthy and training well as evidence by his 7:44 time. Both he and Luis should run sub 13:20.
"Go Run One"
NJ fan wrote:
TrackCoach wrote:
I don't think it makes much sense to draw too many conclusions from a track race in November. Btw, pro runners should be in a heavy strength phase right now and for Drew not having a sprint finish makes sense. It is not uncommon for pros to get beat by up and comers in these situations.
I can't believe how DUMB everyone is. This isn't just a "November race" where he isn't ready. DREW HUNTER IS LITERALLY GOING FOR THE OLYMPIC A STANDARD IN A COUPLE WEEKS. He is at his peak fitness and he got smoked by a collegiate athlete.
He has been preparing all summer and all fall to try running 13:13.50 in the 5k in December. He signed up to be in the sub 13:15 group. If he hits that mark, then he doesn't have to chase times this Spring - he can just focus on the trials.
Grant Fisher already attained the Olympic A standard this summer, along with many other runners. Drew Hunter is BEHIND and if he can't hit the standard in December he is in big trouble.
THIS IS 100% ACCURATE.
ESPECIALLY NOT KNOWING IF/WHEN/WHERE FUTURE "OLYMPIC STANDARD" RACES WILL BE HELD
There was a thread a while back that discussed the actual criticism of Tinmnan. For the most part it was a good thread.
My criticism focuses on how Tinman doesn't do enough to develop closing speed and time and time again Drew Hunter gets destroyed in the last 400m of the race. To win on the National and World level you better have closing speed.
I don't care about the time, but to be absolutely destroyed like that by Luis highlights my point well.
Luis ONLY closed in 1:57. Compared to actual competition that is pedestrian. Drew getting dropped that badly is very worrisome. He is 23 now, better get serious about developing some closing speed soon or time will pass him by. Rupp didn't have much speed at 23, so it can be developed with the right coach.
YMMV wrote:
Truly tragic the kid couldn't win FL his junior year. How could he possibly make up for that?
3:57.81i Drew Hunter (Loudoun Valley, Purcellville, Virginia) 2016
3:58.1 ————Ryun 1965
3:58.25i ————Hunter 2016
3:58.3 ————Ryun 1965
3:58.86 ————Hunter 2016
3:59.0 ————*Ryun 1964
3:59.30 Reed Brown (Carroll, Southlake, Texas) 2017
3:59.38 Matthew Maton (Summit, Bend, Oregon) 2015
3:59.38 Grant Fisher (Grand Blanc, Michigan) 2015
How much has Tinman "Tianman's" vegan extremism impacted Drew's god awful performances? How much do you think he would improve if he switched to the raw red meat diet? Would love to hear your thoughts :-)
Grijalva has a great shot at #2 all-time college 3k, but I bet that he makes it at least up to #4, ahead of Cheserek.
zxcvzcxv wrote:
Grijalva has a great shot at #2 all-time college 3k, but I bet that he makes it at least up to #4, ahead of Cheserek.
He was only 52nd at NCAAs in 2019, too.
NJ fan wrote:
zxcvzcxv wrote:
Grijalva has a great shot at #2 all-time college 3k, but I bet that he makes it at least up to #4, ahead of Cheserek.
He was only 52nd at NCAAs in 2019, too.
Which was one of the reasons they lost. He was 23rd in 2018.
He'll blame it on the "unfair shoe advantage" lol
All fires burn out wrote:
topramen4lyfe wrote:
Grijalva's on fire
Wrong time of the year to be on fire.
Aren't they racing cross in January?????
SanDiegorunner wrote:
All fires burn out wrote:
Wrong time of the year to be on fire.
Aren't they racing cross in January?????
racing on December 5th and regular xc nationals would've just happened, people love to speculate and judge.