Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

So Mr. PubMed himself is suddenly saying that PubMed articles have no consistency in regard or agreement on what they are supposed to represent/the underlying mechanisms that they are trying to describe?

And is also basing his commentary on Bakken on cherry picking random posts on the internet instead of reading his actual book.

Well done Mr. PubMed !!

As I said , there is lack of agreement in the scientific literature as to the meaning of "muscle tone". Posting a single study (of cyclists!) doesn't change that fact.

Thinking about this a bit more, you could also combine tensiomyography with NMES to try to get at tendon stiffness, and/or use ultrasound to measure the latter more directly.

Really, though, I think that quantifying leg spring stiffness is the best place to start, as 1) it's an integrative measure reflecting the functioning of the entire neuromuscular system and 2) can be done using relatively inexpensive commercial devices, e.g., a Stryd.

I'd still be interested in hearing from any Stryd users about what, if any, biomechanical changes they've observed to result from dropping all 'X factor' training and focusing on sub-LT work.

Sort of agree. But Bakken has tried to do both. Best not even mention the suggested "golden zone" paces that are probably even slower than LT1, for some runners, as they don't scale very well. The HR suggestions are just ridiculous and outdated. I want to love the book but there's a lot of problems.

You know, there's a simple way to get the right muscle tension for a workout. Finish your easy run before your workout with strides or your warm-up, or even better, both.

Oh wait, that's right, if you do NSM and then add strides, you'll fall apart. Here we're talking about good load management.

Saw a guy on the NSM subreddit asking if he did his Double T too slow last night. 10k PB of 42:40🤦🏼‍♂️he’d improved from 47:30 to 42:40 in 3 months following NSM after 7/8 months of inconsistent training.

From what I understand having read the anecdotes here about Bakken's book and muscle tone, it is absolutely not necessary for your average hobby Jogger.

In my experience working with runners in the gym, it is easy to tell when someone is unrecovered from overtraining or excessive load for example (or many other things like lack of sleep, stress, drinking, etc.) Their muscles DO present differently and movement in the gym and outside will be subjectively more difficult. But that can also easily be avoided if you just do what has been laid out in sirpoc's book and run TRULY easy, don't overcook sub-T and progress slowly. If you're lifting, do it on the sub-T days so easy days are easy, which Bakken talks about in his book (I think)

I personally find muscle tone very interesting from what I've read here and will definitely be picking up a copy of the book to investigate. But I'm also aspiring to work clinically in sports rehab and physiology so it's a bit more up my lane. I would say the intricacies of it might be a bit beyond the needs of the hobby jogging population unless you're a nerd like me, though. Just my 2 cents.

When I saw 220 - age on Bakken's suggestion from the QR code, to say I was shocked is an understatement.

If JS had something like this he shares he would (rightly) be absolutely flamed to death.

And this is going to be the problem. We are now over complicating stuff idiots like this should be doing. This is going to be an absolute mess.

I had to put in I was 16 years old to make Bakken's calculator work lol I'm 52 😂 very silly.

WTH?? This is Maffetone level of BS...

Wow something you don’t know, I thought the moment you measure something you know how it contributes to training and you know it 40 years ago and bakken should have consulted you on how he should of trained.

I can beat that. I had to put in 8!

Bakken is the godfather. He knows how to train Olympians and champions. But it's hard to disagree that he's a little off I think, with some of the stuff and suggestions for hobby joggers.

This is where pure NSM is goldust. You learn enough without it being too much, but also enough you can shape years or your own training. The balance is about right and why it has such broad and relatable appeal.

Yea all the recent posts here show people just want to be spoonfed information. Here’s guidelines both books don’t mention. If you want to do NSM optimally, only start after you’ve done 4-6 years of Jack Daniels style training. If you want to run the marathon and don’t get hurt, only do it when you’re comfortably able to handle 24 mile long runs.

Quote from Bakken's book:

"Forget 220 minus age. The formula has a margin of error of 10-12 beats, far too imprecise for meaningful zone calculations".

Did you people seriously think that Marius Bakken was not aware that "220-age" is not precise?

10-12 beats per minute? That is ridiculous. The margin of error is absolutely vast. In fact, using it as a reference point even with a margin of error is simply ridiculous.

I've just plugged my age into his calculator and it's 30bpm off lol I had to make my age about 7.

Why he would publish this is baffling.

We are good at laughing at JS for his equally ridiculous "back down to 120bpm". Likewise, to use age (minus) with any margin of error for a wide selection for people is simple ludicrous.

Take the name Bakken out of this and as I said, we would be howling with laughter.