Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

Armstronglivs wrote:

Just Wundrin wrote:

Lame prediction without a time frame on it.

You need to emerge from your basement.

Great comeback. No really, I mean it - that was a seriously great comeback.

Now, care to put a time frame on it? Or should we just accept your post as meaningless?

ALL countries/empires/great powers ... decline and fall sooner or later. So, you've basically said nothing at all (without putting a time frame on it).

Armstronglivs wrote:

Trump and the Republican Party have shown that America is now two separate and irreconcilable countries. Biden's presidency only delays the inevitable. Just as we saw the dissolution of the former Soviet Union we will see the dissolution of the United States of America - the decline and fall of a once great power.

And you have shown that you are a strange person, obsessed with what CNN tells you about a country you have never set foot in, and that has almost nothing to do with you and your life half way around the world.

On this sole issue, however, I tend to agree with you. America seems ready to launch into a long period of scattered, sporadic violence and relative lawlessness. Americans genuinely don't like each other - it's a cut-throat, dog-eat-dog society to begin with, where every man for himself is the prevailing sentiment. That was true long before Trump, and he is no more to blame for increasing the distrust and dislike than the anti-Trump exaggerations and rhetoric you see from low end posters like Trollminator, Poleflap and yourself. America will be looking a lot different and likely a lot worse by its 250th birthday (2026) than it does now, and I think there is very little Biden or anyone else can do to stop that at this point.

I think you are over-exaggerating. These divisions have been simmering for a long time. Trump + the social media driven politics have been a bit of a perfect storm but I suspect that things will return to a simmering state over the next few years. Moreover, there is a demographic transition taking place and as people die we will see a bit of relief.

In short, calling the dissolution of the union strikes me as dramatic.

People also always talking about the US being a power in decline. To me, this is not the right way to look at it. Yea we may not find ourselves in a position of global hegemony in 2050 but is that really such a bad thing. I have to think with new technology that, to a degree, stymies a zero sum game for resources, a rising tide really can lift all boats.

From a practical standpoint the US economy is still expanding and innovating, the US higher education system is the absolute gold standard, the US military is hilariously more powerful than any other nation and the list goes on and on.

TLDR don’t be a drama queen.

Just Wundrin wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You need to emerge from your basement.

Great comeback. No really, I mean it - that was a seriously great comeback.

Now, care to put a time frame on it? Or should we just accept your post as meaningless?

ALL countries/empires/great powers ... decline and fall sooner or later. So, you've basically said nothing at all (without putting a time frame on it).

So you are assuming that I might be referring to a 1000 years hence? Sharp as a crayon.

The disintegration of America's democracy is occurring in real time (yes, President Trump, you are a "third world nation" - but not in the way you suggest), its decline on the international stage conspicuous, and it stands to be economically surpassed by China within 20 years. But to everyone who isn't American it is no longer the leader of the Free World, and its cohesion as a nation is increasingly in doubt.

Nearly fifty years ago the celebrated journalist Alistair Cooke in his series "America" said the nation had passed its peak and was entering the phase he described as "decadence" - which he was not using in the moral sense, but to convey a culture no longer driven by principle but relentless consumption and acquisition for its own sake.

To be unaware of one's decline and its causes is one of the reasons why it is occurring. 2020 has shown that nearly half of American voters are like the Garderene swine following their leader over a cliff.

It amuses me to be described as strangely obsessed with a foreign country - no doubt as observers were as they saw the fall of the Roman Empire. Indeed a former prime minister of my own country used that analogy to describe what is currently occurring in the US. (Neither of us depends on CNN to know this.)

The rest of your comment, which you offer in support of my views, reinforces my central point about how irreconcilably divided the country has become. This closest parallel I can see is where the country was in 1860 - and race remains at the core of it. Trump has successfully exposed this nerve - even if he has succeeded at little else.

I read with interest your comment until I came to the point where you said that the higher education system in the US is absolutely "the gold standard". That did provoke mirth. 70 million Trump voters/conspiracy theorists suggest otherwise. Or they have remained untouched by higher education.

Lot's the blame to go around here. But are you bleeping kidding me? "Trump is no more to blame?" There has been a growing divide, no doubt. As a registered independent I have found that there are less moderates and less moderate thinking in politics than any other time in my life. I'm a big fan of Obama. He's a great man and he did many great things as our President (that hasn't been more evident than after the nonsense of the last 4 years). But he did very little to unite the parties. I voted for him twice hoping he would bring us together. Now, that was made more difficult by the republican house and senate. But he was the top dog. So, he needs to shoulder responsibility for not getting that job done.

But where as Obama had very little success uniting the parties and the country, Trump has gone out of his way to divide us. We had problems, but not only has trump thrown gas on the growing fire, he dropped a nuclear bomb on it.

History will not be kind to Trump, Trumpers and the republican party.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. I am talking about academic research institutions more so than undergrad. I am not arguing that we have done a good job of educating the masses. More that when it comes to incubating next generation technology and scientific advances it isn’t really all that close. Although admittedly China is closing the gap, the degree to which that is occurring is trumped up and in many cases when it does occur it isn’t, what we would call, organic.

highhoppingworm wrote:

Perhaps I should have been more clear. I am talking about academic research institutions more so than undergrad. I am not arguing that we have done a good job of educating the masses. More that when it comes to incubating next generation technology and scientific advances it isn’t really all that close. Although admittedly China is closing the gap, the degree to which that is occurring is trumped up and in many cases when it does occur it isn’t, what we would call, organic.

Looks like the IRS will be politi ized again just as it was under Obama going after conservative groups. House Dems are seeking billions for "enforcement activities.". Is this the American we want?

Talk about non-sequitors.

Are you and your buddy biff ready for another round of Groundhog Day? You're stuck in a loop of losing.

I'd argue that the bolded part is false, although arguable and certainly we're in a divided time.

The late 60s/early 70s were much worse.

We had assassinations, riots, a very large war, cities were crumbling, oil crises, massive inflation, a bad recession, much more violence in the cities....the country felt like it was ripped apart and in terminal decline.

We're now in a bad place, but not as bad as those years.

The country is clearly divided and has a lot of issues, but I think it's quite a stretch to say that the breakup of the USA is immenent.

Trump is is definitely doing his damnedest to divide us. Throughout his Presidency he has been in constant campaign mode always talking to his base and saying "we" and "them" and directly disparaging people in states he didn't win in 2016.

It's not just Trump, but he has capitalized on existing divisions and incited people on both sides. It's the internet, social media, cable news, etc. It's BLM and critical race theory, and it's alt-right white supremacists, proud boys, and 3%er gun nuts.

But, I'm optimistic that we'll get past this current era of extreme division. The division is the worst since the late 1960s, but I think the 60s were worse. We have riots today, but the 60s had riots, assassinations, domestic Marxist terrorist groups, Black Panthers, the KKK, etc. We got through all that. This too shall pass.

Sally Vix wrote:

Looks like the IRS will be politiized again just as it was under Obama going after conservative groups. House Dems are seeking billions for "enforcement activities.". Is this the American we want?

Why would you be opposed to enforcing laws?

The nation is divided primarily because we are undergoing a huge demographic and economic shift. An older generation of white conservatives from the heartland of America are dying off and their influence over the body politic is rapidly waning. The Trump presidency was a last ditch effort to hold power. Social conservatives may see some gains in upcoming election cycles but, after 2030, the Boomers will not have the numbers to overcome Millennials and Gen Z at the ballot box.

Younger America is more racially diverse and has center-left values. They are better educated and have clustered primarily on the coasts where the engines of future economic development thrive. The "brain drain" from the Midwest and Old South is manifesting itself as predicted a decade or two ago.

What does this mean? As the Boomers shuffle off this mortal coil, we will see an increased trend towards liberal policies. It will not be full on socialism as many older conservatives fear rather, something akin to Canada or Western Europe: some large social programs such as healthcare coverage and educational opportunities financed by taxes on a strong private industrial and services base. People will still be able to start businesses, trade on markets, and become wealthy. There are plenty of very wealthy people in Norway, Sweden, France, et al. but also a much lower instance of true poverty and academic underachievement.

Socially, religious influence will steadily decline. Younger Americans have spiritual beliefs however, they have little love nor need for organized religion. The "Golden Rule" is at the heart of their ethos rather than a need to divide or flaunt the superiority of their particular faith to that of others. This will usher in a greater respect for minorities of all kinds. White social conservatives fear that they are being "replaced" while the majority of younger Americans see our melting pot as a strength.

Times are changing. America is changing. I do feel that there is a place for traditional Republican values of less intrusive government, fiscal responsibility, and individual freedoms. If the younger members of the GOP can ditch their old racist extremists and return to their bedrock values, then a kinder and more open brand of conservatism has an important place in the future.

+1. You may be underestimating just how uneven the playing field is RE the EC, gerrymandering etc. would be my only point.

Defund the IRS police? wrote:

Sally Vix wrote:

Looks like the IRS will be politiized again just as it was under Obama going after conservative groups. House Dems are seeking billions for "enforcement activities.". Is this the American we want?

Why would you be opposed to enforcing laws?

Under Obama maybe 500 conservative groups were investigated while 3 liberal groups were. That is not "enforcing the laws" - that is targeting and going after your opponents. Laws should be applied fairly and evenly. I would not want liberal groups to be targeted in a similar manner.

Sally Vix wrote:

Defund the IRS police? wrote:

Why would you be opposed to enforcing laws?

Under Obama maybe 500 conservative groups were investigated while 3 liberal groups were. That is not "enforcing the laws" - that is targeting and going after your opponents. Laws should be applied fairly and evenly. I would not want liberal groups to be targeted in a similar manner.

Yes, the laws should be evenly enforced. The problem with your prior post is that you assumed that increased enforcement equates to unequal enforcement. Ain't necessarily so just because it happened previously. As a lawyer working in a tax-related field, I assure you that a lot of bad actors are gaming the system.

Sally Vix wrote:

Defund the IRS police? wrote:

Why would you be opposed to enforcing laws?

Under Obama maybe 500 conservative groups were investigated while 3 liberal groups were. That is not "enforcing the laws" - that is targeting and going after your opponents. Laws should be applied fairly and evenly. I would not want liberal groups to be targeted in a similar manner.

Aren't you the same guy who insists that black people are arrested and killed by police more frequently than white people are (on a per capita basis) for one and only one reason - because black people commit more crimes? Hmmmmmm . . . ?