Calm the F**K Down! - What is wrong with everyone?

[quote]Libertarian Centrist wrote:

If anyone is wondering, the $13,000 and $39,000 numbers come from a single interview with a senator.

Any documentation of this claim?

Giles Corey wrote:

Libertarian Centrist wrote:

If anyone is wondering, the $13,000 and $39,000 numbers come from a single interview with a senator. It's not clear if these numbers are accurate and if they are truly gratuitous. Furthermore, medicare reimbursements are not a conspiracy theory. What is the reimbursement for a non-COVID patient with pneumonia who is put on a ventilator?

I agree that healthcare costs are staggering, but this is not a conspiracy.

Dunes posted something fully supported by a state senator and several other sources but he should be banned because you don't believe it?

You and Corey Giles et al belong in the East Germany of the 1980s. You are the opposite of what America is supposed to be and ought to be.

Not supported by several sources. One source, a GOP senator interview, reported over an over again. Could be totally wrong. Could be totally out of context. I have not been able to find another source for this but of course the gateway pundit uses this as evidence of the libs trying to tear down Trump.

Dunes used this unsubstantiated "fact" to claim that more people are being put on ventilators because of financial gain. This is absolutely absurd and worthy of a ban.

The virus is real. Take off your bizarre blinders and see this.

Once we can agree that this is a serious threat we can move forward to a solution.

dunes runner wrote:

sack of tomatoes wrote:

Look at places where shelter in place is impossible like nursing homes. It spreads through like wildfire.

What we need to do is to get a bunch of younger healthier people to wander around the various nursing homes.

That way the old people whose bodies are wearing out will catch what the younger people have, and will become younger and healthier too!

The health and longivity will spread like wildfire! Because that's obviously how people can change their health, age and condition, by being around others.

^This!

Right on! Why are we letting these covid alarmists run the show!?!

I think these protest should be expanded. In fact, what needs to happen ASAP is a resumption of Trump rallies. These she be called, “Opening American Again” rallies and masks, social distancing, etc. should be BANNED AT THESE RALLIES.

Trump & Pence should attend and should be sure to shake everyone’s hand—since, as Pence said on national TV, he is a politician and will not stop shaking hands.

These rallies should be held in Churches in rural areas throughout the Midwest and South.

Let’s show the libs and the so-called “experts” that all of their alarmists policies do not apply to REAL AMERICANS!

Giles Corey wrote:

[quote]Libertarian Centrist wrote:

If anyone is wondering, the $13,000 and $39,000 numbers come from a single interview with a senator.

Any documentation of this claim?

I read the article.

It cites one source. That source is a state senator.

The complete "article" is about four sentences...

Giles Corey wrote:

Dunes posted something fully supported by a state senator and several other sources but he should be banned because you don't believe it?

You and Corey Giles et al belong in the East Germany of the 1980s. You are the opposite of what America is supposed to be and ought to be.

You are lying.

You belong in the Germany of the mid 1930s.

Giles Corey wrote:

Libertarian Centrist wrote:

If anyone is wondering, the $13,000 and $39,000 numbers come from a single interview with a senator. It's not clear if these numbers are accurate and if they are truly gratuitous. Furthermore, medicare reimbursements are not a conspiracy theory. What is the reimbursement for a non-COVID patient with pneumonia who is put on a ventilator?

I agree that healthcare costs are staggering, but this is not a conspiracy.

Dunes posted something fully supported by a state senator and several other sources but he should be banned because you don't believe it?

You and Corey Giles et al belong in the East Germany of the 1980s. You are the opposite of what America is supposed to be and ought to be.

You are the opposite of what American is supposed to be an ought to be.

You see doctors and scientists as having an economic agenda that clouds their judgement. You fail to see how these are honest people who will get zero additional financial benefit for their work during this time. You fail to see extremely intelligent, hardworking individuals who are risking their lives to make things right in a crisis.

You see Trump as unveiling the truth behind the corrupt elites in the CDC, WHO, etc, but you fail to see Trump as a poor leader who does not understand the concept of uncertainty and who rids his inner circle of anyone who isn't a yes-man who heaps on praise.

You claim that non-COVID related deaths are being counted as COVID deaths, which is easily debunked by actually reading the CDC guidelines and having a modicum of understanding of medicine.

You hear uncertainty again and again yet keep searching for certainty. "If experts tell you something is unknowable, don’t keep asking new people until you get a straight answer. Because in doing so you haven’t found the truth, you have found someone who wants your ear."

Corey Giles wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

[quote]Libertarian Centrist wrote:

If anyone is wondering, the $13,000 and $39,000 numbers come from a single interview with a senator.

Any documentation of this claim?

I read the article.

It cites one source. That source is a state senator.

The complete "article" is about four sentences...

Yep, one source

Unsubstantiated

Figures taken out of context etc.

What they used to call fake news but which is now seen as evidence of a worldwide conspiracy.

Who cares about free speech just ban um all. If your arguments aren't good enough to sway people than that is your problem. Source for his claim was posted feel free to disprove his claims but censorship is not the answer. Nor is locking down asymptomatic Americans. Give me Liberty or give me Death. You pansies can hide in your mom's basement.

It is really difficult to prove or disprove social distancing effects at this point and too what magnitude they are working. Do they help?... sure it works for flu too look at the CDC flu map. More importantly you are not responding to the very valid points of the economic destruction that is occurring because of the social distancing, shut downs etc which is becoming more evident by the day and more severe with time. Policy makers have to decide which is worse and come up with some sort of compromise.

What I'm arguing is the cure is worse than the disease with our current course of action and doing so by using data that shows covid isn't nearly as lethal as we first thought when we first started shutdown. Also when put into perspective with past pandemics and other causes of death it makes our decisions seem irrational. Try to dispute that.

1. Everywhere we are shutting down elective procedures as a result the bulk of hospitals are empty. You know you can transfer pt's from overwhelmed areas to others right? In Idaho Blaine county had highest per captia covid rates in the world and they just got transferred to Twin Falls. They did great. No one died for lack of care.

You never did answer where you work or what you do when you say my ICU. Like I said previous poster was caught lying saying the hospital he worked at was overflowing when he admitted he was in Missouri that had only about 100 cases statewide at the time. Everyone on lets run makes 500K sub 14 5k etc.

2. Can you blame people for not overreacting with WHO's response plus our past experience with ebola, MERS and SARS. I remember preparing for ebola outbreak in rural Missouri at the time.

3. Medicine is seasonal we are always busier in the winter months. We send people to urgent care or ER when we can't get them in. Again you can move pt's and in this case providers/hospitals to hot spots. We have deployed unnecessary staff to unnecessary positions to let them keep their jobs. Great use of people.

4. What do you want to teach us about germ theory? Is anyone disputing there is a virus? We are discussing lethality, infectiousness etc.

5. Humans have short lifespans once in a life time events happen a lot. We have 7.8 billion people on the planet things that happen only once every 7.8 billion human days lived happen every day. If you had anyone around from 1918 they could really tell stories let alone people that dealt with smallpox, polio etc.

6. We now have better data. Why continue to panic? The uncertainty is decreasing you can change course you know. We are now way to late on relaxing our restrictions.

What data do you want for more certainty? What do you feel we are lacking to open things back up?

[quote]Libertarian Centrist wrote:

Not supported by several sources. One source, a GOP senator interview, reported over an over again.

For the second time, can you document the claim that this one guy was the sole source for these numbers?

Surely you have a reason for saying this. Other than it fits your agenda

Was the source provided good enough? Doesn't seem like you gave him a change to respond before banning. Maybe you did but source was posted... time to let Dunes Runner post.

[quote]Libertarian Centrist wrote:

You claim that non-COVID related deaths are being counted as COVID deaths, which is easily debunked by actually reading the CDC guidelines and having a modicum of understanding of medicine.

Then debunk away . Any thoughts on why the words presumed (i.e., guesses), related, and linked are always attached to the number of Covid deaths?

coahc wrote:

Have you admitted you were wrong yet?

So sad that people like you are still out there. If you don't get the point by now, you never will. The projections have all been "revised," the curve is flattening and trending downward, the blame game has started as to whose fault it is for the incorrect models, all while simultaneously claiming that the models were not wrong and social distancing is working. We surpassed current year, but are just now equaling the amount of deaths from last year's "mild" flu season. We have not reached 2017/18 levels yet and you, for whatever reason, still don't get the point. I'll never convince people like you that I was right. If deaths remain under 61,000 you will cite "social distancing" rather than admit an overreaction and incorrect modeling. If deaths are above 61,000, you will rush in glee to post that I was wrong, while still missing the bigger point, which was that 2 million people were NEVER going to die from COVID-19. NEVER! We never needed all those ventilators, people did not have to panic and we did not have to destroy the economy and put people out of work. We don't do it for the flu, even when we know in advance that it's going to be a bad year, so we should not have done it for COVID-19. That's the point.

Funny how all those people that predicted millions and hundreds of thousands of deaths are either no where to be found or have predictably changed their position to "social distancing bro." .

No one is making any sense, everyone is in a state of denial and self preservation, both democrats and republicans, and all that's left is to spin the sh!t out of this to get their candidate elected.

So, to answer your question...

NO!

[quote]explain wrote:

[quote]Corey Giles wrote:

Yep, one source.

Please show this all came from one source

Figures taken out of context etc.

What does that mean?

Giles Corey wrote:

[quote]Libertarian Centrist wrote:

Not supported by several sources. One source, a GOP senator interview, reported over an over again.

For the second time, can you document the claim that this one guy was the sole source for these numbers?

Surely you have a reason for saying this. Other than it fits your agenda

READ THE ARTICLE!! The article you posted on this thread. It quotes one source. He was the sole source for the article!

If you are claiming there was more than one source for the claim in your article, post what you are saying the second source was.

Dr. Amy Acton, (no, not Dr. Melfi), said she thought 10k/cases per day in mid-April to late-April. Today is 4/17. Even Italy at its peak was at 6,557 cases/day by memory.

rojo wrote:

I've just banned Dunes Runner for a day for saying some are " paying hospitals an extra $39,000 when patients die on ventilators and they put the cause of death as covid even though it was obviously something else completely different". If he wants to provide evidence that is true, then he provide a link. Otherwise we view it as fake news.

I restored Dunesrunners priviliges. I found where a doctor did say, " "Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do.""

That is close enough to what Dunes said that it did not warrant a ban. My apologies. It shows why we don't like to try and arbitrate the truth. Please try and back up specific claims with links, but this banning was an error on our part I believe.

Corey Giles wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

[quote]Libertarian Centrist wrote:

Not supported by several sources. One source, a GOP senator interview, reported over an over again.

For the second time, can you document the claim that this one guy was the sole source for these numbers?

Surely you have a reason for saying this. Other than it fits your agenda

READ THE ARTICLE!! The article you posted on this thread. It quotes one source. He was the sole source for the article!

If you are claiming there was more than one source for the claim in your article, post what you are saying the second source was.

Who cares if it was 1 source or 100, quoting a Senator and getting banned for doing so is idiotic! I recall a post a while back that people were crying about and asking for it to be banned and Wejo said he would not ban it because it wasn't his role to fact check it. He cited Yahoo and Twitter having the money and resources to do so and if they hadn't, he wouldn't. That was a sensible approach. In this case, someone was looking for a reason to ban Dunes and they made up a stupid one. Someone that incessantly whines and posts unsourced nonsense about Nike shoes being mechanical doping, should actually know better.