remembererer wrote:
Gina wrote:
Was it agip that tried to defend these guys?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-militia-planned-weeklong-series-180819334.htmlIn agip's defense, he did not actually try to defend those guys. He only tried to defend the sheriff who tried to defend those guys.
The anger from COVID-deniers is so red hot in MI, especially after Biden wins. I don’t think that governor is safe.
agip wrote:
Gina wrote:
Unadulterated BS, just your defense of the Michigan militia that wanted to “make a citizens arrest”
Junior will not be President. Take a break fella.
I didn;t defend the militia, I defended the sherriff. I forgot the detail of why. He was describing various crimes, not assuming the obvious was true. That is usually a very good trait in a leo.
Don't we agree that the R party will be trumpist for a period of time?
Anyway, my point is that that those same people at trump rallies feel that the loss of the civil war was not the end of anything, and nothing needed to be changed afterward.
I think mag/s will use the same formulation with trump. The won't mind the loss - they will create a false myth around trump as a great president, they will see biden as a yankee interloper, and they will want to recreate the Trump era.
Sr will encourage this as long as he is alive, and Jr and maybe ivanka will run for office. Maybe not president.
In this case the civil war has just started. Trump lost but they all more heavily voted for the GOP. Do not forget trump had a record turnout. It’s not like trumpers rejected him - they fkn grew in numbers! He won more fans. Trump losing probably hurts them, but it’s probably seen as a small battle. Nothing else changed - the GOP is totally raped and gone, right wing media is completely behind the psycho cause, and the base thinks the country is going to collapse under socialism. Q anon is still a force and most of the base thinks Biden only won because of rampant fraud. And the GOP is emboldened, they are likely keeping the senate and grew their house seats. This was a fantastic election for them. Their people spoke loudly and told them they love trumpism. The GOP wil welcome the next useful idiot with open arms and right now the trump klan still runs the show.
zephito wrote:
agip wrote:
perhaps you gents haven't studied the Southern fondness for the leaders of their catastrophic and immoral civil war. And how their postwar leaders were terrible, uncharismatic people who kept the lost cause alive.
Right wingers will do everything they can to keep the trump brand alive. Jr will run for office and he may win
I don't agree with you on this. The terrible, uncharismatic traitors of yesteryear were ideologues defending the principle of slavery and white supremacy. Trump and his spawn are just loudmouthed windbags in it for the grift; they're not sticking to any ironclad positions demanded by the electorate. They're just making up random crap on a daily basis. There has never been a more ideologically confused president. It is sustained only by the indefinable power of celebrity, which I believe Junior lacks.
I do think they will initially try to keep Trumpism alive but I don't think it will work for too long and they'll eventually have to try something else. And likely there will still be a sort of protectionist ethnostate platform in the party for a while but it will be advocated by relatively normal people who will be awful in normative ways. Like, if they lose, they might still whine about unfairness and rigging but they're not going to openly attempt an autocoup.
At least I hope...
What Trump represents to the mouth breathers is not incoherent positions. He represents a mass uprising against the crooked government and a liberal left that have taken away their great nation. He was very consistent in that regard. A coup is not going to happen but look at how aggressively the bad climate has worsened in 4 years. We are much closer to a tipping point than you may think. The GOP will keep trumpism alive and easily. A whole half of the country doesn’t operate with facts and doesn’t care about them. That’s not going to change because Biden (Obama’s puppet) is in the WH for 4 years. What I am observing is that they are succeeding in making him a lame duck president before he even gets started.
I don't believe our country is in a state that makes it possible to pivot back to a positive path. At least half the country has blinders on and the GOP is doing everything possible to keep that going. I see no sign of that changing. The corruption has been on their side and everything is game to stay in power (aka whatever they need to do to stop the america destroying communists). They will use any unsavory and illegal means to keep the hate machine going (aka to keep america alive). They are playing an unbeatable game. They are voted in for the purpose of breaking government and stopping the democrats. Democrats and Libs are already household boogeyman slurs.
How do I know we are at past the point on no return? Because the GOP is starting to eat their own to maintain power. Any R that stands up and says that something isn't normal gets immediately attacked. Tucker who is as trumpian and they get was just blasted on social media for questioning trump's lawyer. The GA republican SOS is receiving death threats for not fixing the election. You can't easily hop off the crazy train after being on it for many years.
Here's the next 4 years: With Dems coming up short in the GA senate races, Turkey neck will do nothing but obstruct. Almost all of their senators have been without a shred of doubt rewarded for sticking behind trumpism. The political backlash that we were all expecting didn't come and it's not coming. They are going to take the House in 2022. Biden will be very weakened by 2024, both because he won't be able to do much and because the left will be disappointed. The quest to destroy america will continue.
I'm seriously shocked anyone is ready to write off the likes of Don Jr. Remember that trump was just a symptom. Sure he blew right through everyone's expectations of corrupt behavior, but once again he was given the keys to do it. The GOP is stuck in a dark path they can't exit without self destructing. They need to keep feeding the blood thirst. Corruption, extortion, lies, racism, bribery is like water off a duck's back to them. And keep in mind that to a lot of people they are actually doing god's work. Btw, they won't overturn Roe v Wade. Abortion is too good a selling point, it's a massive cash cow that will keep the herd angry forever. They are already effectively blocking abortion in their states so there is no need to make an unforced error and lose a massive political issue. The GOP has been playing 3D chess with everyone. Sure, this will eventually destroy their country too, but you don't typically hear of justice happening in these situations. They are all rich and powerful and can afford to avoid the disasters they are inflicting on others.
Real evidence of a full blown revolution will come when Dems have to react forcefully. It will come when they have to start prosecuting people on the right, and when they have to start using disinformation for the greater good. When the Dems have to start playing their game we are in for a fun time.
Picked this up from a reddit poster who summarizes it well:
"Here's the thing we all need to understand about these folks.
They're losers. And no, I don't just say that to attack them or be mean-spirited. They are literal losers. They have been losing the culture war in the Western world for over 50 consecutive years now. Sometimes, they claw a few inches back, only to lose miles of ground immediately after. The world is steadily, and eagerly, looking to leave these people behind.
If you ask me, that's a good thing and well past due. But just for a second, imagine it from their perspective. Imagine you want a world where the straight white man was king, all others were beneath you, God and the church were unassailable, women were for sandwiches and raising your kids (and they would never dream of an abortion less you told them to get one)... and yet every day you see the world getting further and further away from that (while telling you to 'fvck right off' as it does).
They're never going to care how corrupt Trump is. All they're ever going to care about is the world they'll never have. And since they'll never have it, they'll make due with enjoying every opportunity they get to see the real world burn. That's the only "winning" available to them, the only real opportunities for them to feel like things are going their way."
Thanks for posting that Reddit take Troll. I quite like the way that is worded.
So many pages !
Trollminator wrote:
But just for a second, imagine it from their perspective. Imagine you want a world where the straight white man was king, all others were beneath you, God and the church were unassailable, women were for sandwiches and raising your kids (and they would never dream of an abortion less you told them to get one)... and yet every day you see the world getting further and further away from that (while telling you to 'fvck right off' as it does).
Yes, All they know is THAT. So anything else is scary, and not for them. But THIS is what America is (at least what the books tell you it's supposed to be). Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for ALL. Not just for them.
Trump: Concede.
Biden: Stay strong.
Giuliani: Lay off the hair dye.
welp wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
But just for a second, imagine it from their perspective. Imagine you want a world where the straight white man was king, all others were beneath you, God and the church were unassailable, women were for sandwiches and raising your kids (and they would never dream of an abortion less you told them to get one)... and yet every day you see the world getting further and further away from that (while telling you to 'fvck right off' as it does).
Yes, All they know is THAT. So anything else is scary, and not for them. But THIS is what America is (at least what the books tell you it's supposed to be). Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for ALL. Not just for them.
That's why we have been calling them fascists. A dying minority preferring dictatorial power and suppression of the opposition over the will of the majority.
86 45 wrote:
Trump: Concede.
Biden: Stay strong.
Ghouliani: Lay off the hair dye.
This is the lunatic at the front of Trump's legal team.
And how about that Jenna Ellis, eh? "your question is fundamentally flawed when you ask where's the evidence. You clearly don't understand the legal process..... "
Holy hell.
the optimistic way to look at this is that the 4 years of trump...were the civil war.
the election of 2020 was Appomattox. The end of the civil war.
Now starts Reconstruction.
The original Reconstruction was messy, sloppy and not all that successful, but it wasn't open warfare either.
They held a 90 minute press conference and told 90 minutes worth of lies. Embarrassing for all us. Jesus, republicans. Can we put an end to this circus show please? Where's your frigging pride?
agip wrote:
The end of the civil war.
I actually fear this is the very start of a civil war. Too many people too far gone.
agip wrote:
the optimistic way to look at this is that the 4 years of trump...were the civil war.
the election of 2020 was Appomattox. The end of the civil war.
Now starts Reconstruction.
The original Reconstruction was messy, sloppy and not all that successful, but it wasn't open warfare either.
Hahahaha no way... 73.7 million people.. beating trump does not equate to ending the GOP's quest to destroy america. For the last four years that quest just took on the name trumpism. How is it defeated in any way? We need the losers to concede and give up their ways. Trump will concede but the GOP won't on trumpism. You can't even think about reconstruction, there is power or political will for that. In civil war terms, 2016 was First Bull Run and 2020 was Fort Henry & Fort Donelson... very far from any conclusive pivot.
Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
the optimistic way to look at this is that the 4 years of trump...were the civil war.
the election of 2020 was Appomattox. The end of the civil war.
Now starts Reconstruction.
The original Reconstruction was messy, sloppy and not all that successful, but it wasn't open warfare either.
Hahahaha no way... 73.7 million people.. beating trump does not equate to ending the GOP's quest to destroy america. For the last four years that quest just took on the name trumpism. How is it defeated in any way? We need the losers to concede and give up their ways. Trump will concede but the GOP won't on trumpism. You can't even think about reconstruction, there is power or political will for that. In civil war terms, 2016 was First Bull Run and 2020 was Fort Henry & Fort Donelson... very far from any conclusive pivot.
Sorry, of course trump wont concede.. he'll leave in zip ties if needed, but won't concede.
Trollminator wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
Hahahaha no way... 73.7 million people.. beating trump does not equate to ending the GOP's quest to destroy america. For the last four years that quest just took on the name trumpism. How is it defeated in any way? We need the losers to concede and give up their ways. Trump will concede but the GOP won't on trumpism. You can't even think about reconstruction, there is power or political will for that. In civil war terms, 2016 was First Bull Run and 2020 was Fort Henry & Fort Donelson... very far from any conclusive pivot.
Sorry, of course trump wont concede.. he'll leave in zip ties if needed, but won't concede.
well part of my point was that after Appomattox, there was still fighting and discord and very bad behavior by Southern whites. But there was no bigwar.
The parallel to now might be R politicians being Trumpy in words but not having the votes to actually do anything.
aaaand it starts.
Trial balloon: Lara Trump for Senate in NC, 2022
Trumps are gonna be running for office all over the Confederacy.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/19/lara-trump-north-carolina-senate-seat-438447
agip wrote:
the optimistic way to look at this is that the 4 years of trump...were the civil war.
the election of 2020 was Appomattox. The end of the civil war.
Now starts Reconstruction.
The original Reconstruction was messy, sloppy and not all that successful, but it wasn't open warfare either.
What is happening now is not remotely like the civil war and reconstruction. I suspect that you would be hard pressed to find even one prominent historian who thinks so.
Trump is a failed fascist. If you are looking for a comparison, there are plenty of good historical parallels to that.
Fat hurts wrote:
agip wrote:
the optimistic way to look at this is that the 4 years of trump...were the civil war.
the election of 2020 was Appomattox. The end of the civil war.
Now starts Reconstruction.
The original Reconstruction was messy, sloppy and not all that successful, but it wasn't open warfare either.
What is happening now is not remotely like the civil war and reconstruction. I suspect that you would be hard pressed to find even one prominent historian who thinks so.
Trump is a failed fascist. If you are looking for a comparison, there are plenty of good historical parallels to that.
It's a framework, not a note for note comparison.
But I'd say Trump is not a fascist. He's a pile of garbage but he's not a fascist.
He's an autocrat. A Putin. An Orban. A latin american dictator.
Although we could argue what 'fascism' is. No one really knows.
