Post above me has me questioning what's real in this thread anymore.
So anyone else think one of the underrated key aspects of this whole approach is the third ST workout followed by the easy long run? I know some people bake their third ST workout into a long run, especially if they're on 6 days, but my Intervals.icu Fitness score loves it when I hit the ST-EL back to back combo.
Went 20:22 today. Was hoping to be a little closer to 20 but like I said, I missed some training due to an illness and a family ski trip so I'm not too upset about it. Ran 20:46 in my last 5K 3 weeks ago so I'm not going to be too disappointed about a 24 second improvement over three weeks. Last year at this same race under similar conditions I ran 21:20.
My 12 year old son ran a new PR of 20:18. In that 5K 3 weeks ago he ran 20:52 so we'll take 34 seconds of improvement in 3 weeks. Last year he ran 25:09. The biggest thing I've noticed with this approach as it pertains to him is that he is willing to do the training, when I and the club he used to be a part of had him on a traditional program he didn't like it and wouldn't put in the effort.
And that is the biggest part IMO - this method of training is very accessible and gets results. You don't feel trashed after a workout and mentally I actually look forward to the sub-T sessions as I know I'm going to work, but it is not going to linger for days and make me feel like not running and forcing myself to do it anyway because I can't take 3 days off to recover.
Japaneese elite runners do some of their easy runs way slower than 4:20-4:30min/km pace.Certain Kenyan runners also do some of their easy runs slower than 70% of threshold,way slower.
There are examples for both slower easy runs, and brisker ones too amongst the elites.
running at 7:30 per mile and 75% max HR in the long term will have a bigger impact on fatigue but give basically no additional benefits to running at 65% max HR and 9 mins per mile.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Exercise at higher intensity (for the same duration/distance) will ALWAYS lead to greater adaptations than exercise at a lower intensity. To claim otherwise is simply nonsensical.
So we're back to the 1920s then. Just do a time trial each day of your competition distance. Aim to knock a second or two off each time. Marginal gains with big adaptations off minimal time. Nothing could be simpler...
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Exercise at higher intensity (for the same duration/distance) will ALWAYS lead to greater adaptations than exercise at a lower intensity. To claim otherwise is simply nonsensical.
So we're back to the 1920s then. Just do a time trial each day of your competition distance. Aim to knock a second or two off each time. Marginal gains with big adaptations off minimal time. Nothing could be simpler...
I take it that the word non sequitur isn't in your vocabulary?
Have been using this to hopefully go sub 15 this week, 18 years old, club runner in the UK. was going nowhere with my coach and my dad (52) was having success with this method. Have gone from 16:02 hopefully to a mid to high 14 this week. Having been following the basics from the book for around 3 months now. Seem to have had the "breakthrough".
Thanks also to everyone who has contributed here.
Just an update on this. Amazingly cool, I broke 15 for high 14 and sirpoc was in my race! Had no idea he would be at Battersea. He must have been by far the oldest guy in the B race! Mostly younger runners. I saw him at the start in his usual kit I recognised from the book and for some reason that relaxed me. Kind of cool, someone else posted on Reddit about crushing their pb at Battersea as well in the C race having followed NSM for a low 15.
Afterwards I said hi to him and he seemed incredibly happy for me and laughed at himself and said a lot of swear words when he saw his watch and realised what time he had run again!
My dad took me for years to a running club night, weekends. Unfortunately the coach is quite old school and not that adaptable, but my dad has been under the radar coaching a lot of the runners and as a club they are having huge success. Another younger runner my own age is now jumping on having seen how he was beating me by a minute, to me comfortably beating him.
I'll continue to update over time. Mostly 5k focused but still doing the very much basics of nsm and improving.
Thanks to sirpoc and anyone else who has posted useful stuff over time, there's so many! Was very useful reading cheetodusts posts as he must have so much knowledge and is incredibly fast yet keeps it very simple still.
I'm getting pretty bike-curious after seeing sirpoc, cheetodust, wigglewaffle all lean pretty heavily into it. I'm at about 7.5 hours running singles. I'm not particularly interested in double runs - I tried 30-minute easy running doubles (4-6 per week) last summer on top of vanilla, but logistically it was hard to plan an outdoor run around work/kids/meals/etc. I also tend to wear down mechanically before I do aerobically, so I suspect I'd be increasing my injury risk substantially.
I probably have the time to do up to a 45-minute ride (stationary bike) in the PM on most weekdays. My thought was easy rides on easy days and sweet spot rides on threshold days. It seems like sirpoc and cheetodust have mostly just stuck to two sweet spot rides, except when injured. Anyone have thoughts/ideas on the best way to layer on cycling on top of vanilla?
Just an update on this. Amazingly cool, I broke 15 for high 14 and sirpoc was in my race! Had no idea he would be at Battersea. He must have been by far the oldest guy in the B race! Mostly younger runners. I saw him at the start in his usual kit I recognised from the book and for some reason that relaxed me. Kind of cool, someone else posted on Reddit about crushing their pb at Battersea as well in the C race having followed NSM for a low 15.
Afterwards I said hi to him and he seemed incredibly happy for me and laughed at himself and said a lot of swear words when he saw his watch and realised what time he had run again!
My dad took me for years to a running club night, weekends. Unfortunately the coach is quite old school and not that adaptable, but my dad has been under the radar coaching a lot of the runners and as a club they are having huge success. Another younger runner my own age is now jumping on having seen how he was beating me by a minute, to me comfortably beating him.
I'll continue to update over time. Mostly 5k focused but still doing the very much basics of nsm and improving.
Thanks to sirpoc and anyone else who has posted useful stuff over time, there's so many! Was very useful reading cheetodusts posts as he must have so much knowledge and is incredibly fast yet keeps it very simple still.
Another loser with lame training and times he thinks is good but sucks and gets lapped by anyone good.
I'm getting pretty bike-curious after seeing sirpoc, cheetodust, wigglewaffle all lean pretty heavily into it. I'm at about 7.5 hours running singles. I'm not particularly interested in double runs - I tried 30-minute easy running doubles (4-6 per week) last summer on top of vanilla, but logistically it was hard to plan an outdoor run around work/kids/meals/etc. I also tend to wear down mechanically before I do aerobically, so I suspect I'd be increasing my injury risk substantially.
I probably have the time to do up to a 45-minute ride (stationary bike) in the PM on most weekdays. My thought was easy rides on easy days and sweet spot rides on threshold days. It seems like sirpoc and cheetodust have mostly just stuck to two sweet spot rides, except when injured. Anyone have thoughts/ideas on the best way to layer on cycling on top of vanilla?
More losers trying to think you can replace running with something else and still be good at running LOL
Japaneese elite runners do some of their easy runs way slower than 4:20-4:30min/km pace.Certain Kenyan runners also do some of their easy runs slower than 70% of threshold,way slower.
There are examples for both slower easy runs, and brisker ones too amongst the elites.
No true elite is running easy days this slow. 70% of threshold they may as well not get out of bed. More fake news.
Japaneese elite runners do some of their easy runs way slower than 4:20-4:30min/km pace.Certain Kenyan runners also do some of their easy runs slower than 70% of threshold,way slower.
There are examples for both slower easy runs, and brisker ones too amongst the elites.
No true elite is running easy days this slow. 70% of threshold they may as well not get out of bed. More fake news.
Some of the Japanese guys do a really slow 3rd session. Pretty much all the kenyans are doing their easy days at 4-4:30. People see the warm up jog at 7mins and think that is the workout.... But either way when you have the fatigue of 200km+ in your legs you can do whatever you want .
Post above me has me questioning what's real in this thread anymore.
So anyone else think one of the underrated key aspects of this whole approach is the third ST workout followed by the easy long run? I know some people bake their third ST workout into a long run, especially if they're on 6 days, but my Intervals.icu Fitness score loves it when I hit the ST-EL back to back combo.
I bet it is the least important part. You could do the bakken method of 2 ST and 1 easy vo2max/sprint interval and end up in the same spot.
Good discussion on building aerobic capacity by the respected coach Scott Johnson (Uphill Athlete) on Extramilest show.
Some of his views:
Aerobic underdevelopment is measured by how wide the gap is between LT1 and LT2.
Aim to get this gap down to circa 10%, before doing any higher intensity.
Thresholds can only be pushed up from below, not pulled up from above.
Distribution typically 90% below LT1 and 10% below LT2 (S/T).
Believes in S/T, either continuous, or long intervals(particularly for F/T types). Also double S/T days.
Too much S/T can lower LT1.
Objective is to push up LT1 as close as possible to LT2.
This is nonsense. Any distinction between LT1 and LT2 is completely arbitrary. Reality is that the blood lactate response to exercise is a continuous function. Furthermore, training above "threshold" can be highly effective at moving this relationship downward and to the right, even when intensity is expressed as a percentage of VO2max.
training above "threshold" can be highly effective at moving this relationship downward and to the right, even when intensity is expressed as a percentage of VO2max.
Eight men were studied before and after a 12-wk exercise program to determine the effect of training on blood lactate levels during submaximal exercise. The training elicited a 26% increase in maximum O2 uptake (VO2max). Lact...
training above "threshold" can be highly effective at moving this relationship downward and to the right, even when intensity is expressed as a percentage of VO2max.
