trunner* wrote:
I got into an argument with someone a while back about how mead 1993 and york 1999 would not be competitive with the top teams in the nation in 2023 and 2024. Old folks insisted that these teams were the next best teams after Newbury Park. Based on the downvote/upvote ration I was deemed wrong but I found some proof to show just how much better teams are now than they were in the past. Right now, in 2024, we are seeing some of the fastest teams ever in history.
We can know this through historical courses that have been around since the 1970s. Specifically Woodward Park.
Woodward park is a course that is comparable from year to year because 1) it is the exact same course 2) hard pack dirt (so no changes in the surface of the course) 3) weather is always good. This means times run in 1970s are EXACTLY comparable to times run in 2020s.
There are around 20 invitationals run at Woodward Park course every year. The biggest race being the Clovis Invitational and obviously the California State Championships.
Mead 1993, one of the hailed all time great teams in history, ran at Woodward Park, the exact same Woodward Park that is run right now. This was for Footlocker West Regionals, as that race used to be held at Woodward Park in the 1990s.
Mead 1993 WA ran a team time of 77:22. At the time they ran this, it was a team course record, a record for a course that has been run for many years , and will be run for many more years to come. It would remain the team course record for 17 years, until Arcadia 2010 came bursting in the scene. Arcadia 2010 ran 76:14. A time that would shattered Mead 1993 course record. Arcadia latter went on to win the NXN title in conditions that were not ideal for California runners.
After Arcadia burst into the scene, a numerous of very fast teams started to develop in SoCAL area. Specifically Great Oak, Newbury Park, and Arcadia. These teams would run the 12 fastest team times every run on the course. Eventually more fast teams developed which would push Mead 1993's 77:22 back to #16 all-time team time at Woodward Park in 2024.
In 2024 at the Clovis Invitational:
#9 - Crater 76:39
#13 - Beckman 77:04
#17 - Jesuit 77:24Even better is how Clovis is just a regular Invitational. 80% of teams run even faster at their state meet, or crater will run much faster at nxr northwest. Mead ran one of their best races at Woodward Park at the end of the season.
Mead 1993 WA, one of the best teams in history (according to letsrun historians) would have placed 4th at the Clovis Invitational (at their peak race at the end of the season). This goes to show just how much faster teams are running now than they were in the past.
The greatest teams are here with us right now. Southwest is ridiculously good. Northwest is good too. There is CBA in the Northeast. Southlake Carroll and Austin Vandegrift in the South. And belen Jesuit in the Southeast.
Was Woodward a 5k or 3 miles when both teams ran there? I doubt FL ran a 3 mile race but I really have no idea. Woodward course seems to change often as well.
As for Clovis, Crater lost by quite a bit. It's one of the flaws of team time.
Lastly, both of these courses seems to run without spikes. Do athletes use super shoes? I'm of the belief that XC spikes don't change much but the super shoes do. Super shoes will give a huge bump as we are seeing in road racing.
