Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

That's child abuse

I ran a PB at Seville also! I'm neither of these people, just a small pb for me. Just broke 2:50. Down from 2:52 but that was done on a lot more mileage using Pitfz and honestly only just survived. I just went by the book, which I have followed since I got it the day it came out up until now, so missed a few weeks at the start and just converted everything to time.

I'm in the UK as well, the 2:32 guy I'm sure is actually friends or maybe gets direct guidance from sirpoc, saw them out in Seville last night! Sirpoc in Britain we say had "had a few" to the point I didn't even know if I should say hello lol I'm guessing was also with the guy he was chasing round also on the bike, who also pb'd in Seville, who edited the book.

The 2:59 guy I just asked to follow. He posted on one of sirpoc's rides with the story from yesterday, so he wasn't hard to find. Would be great to hear what he did though as looks like a pound for pound huge improvement.

Yeah, he was so disappointed with a 24 second PR.

Nut job is right...

main takeaway: Jason Fitzgerald is F ing useless

I've always been surprised by the amount of volume Paul does. I mean this in the nicest way possible, and I understand genetics are a thing, but you shouldn't need to run over 11 hours a week to break 16. And the fact that he mentioned that he's always dealing with some form of niggles, maybe he's just never actually recovered enough to gain stimulus and improve?

How much of that improvement is just the result of your son being a few months older?

For every person who has said I'm running the intervals too slowly, there's another saying I've been running them too fast.

In terms of the CTL going up and down; that's just due to backing off in the last few days before races. If I was running 6-7 hours a week, I probably wouldn't back off as much, but I personally don't see the point in racing if you know you're not gonna be able to get the best out of yourself because you're too fatigued. I'm training to race, not racing to train.

Also, to the guy who said "you shouldn't need to run 11 hours a week to break 16" - unfortunately some of us do need to. I wish I had more talent - but I love running and I'll do what I need to do to get faster.

Thanks for the clarification! Shooting for 3:10 this year. Going to be super-patient with myself. I know there is a period where I won't see immediate improvement BUT I'm not worried because it's not a surprise. The book even says it is possible it will happen and to just stick with it.

As this training is catching on it's gonna piss off more and more legacy coaching types that thrived in the social media space from the mid-2010s to today.

How many hours were you running when you ran your 10k PB? And if you increased your weekly training time since then, what was that decision based on? Did introducing doubles give a noticeable performance gain?

and need more and more cute explanations about why ‘boring’ training does NOT actually work

right after they tell you NOT to follow other shiny objects

all totally circular, and luckily social media wasnt around in Lydiards heyday

always remember: credibility and marketability are inversely related

Just slightly less mileage than I'm doing now. In the 7 weeks prior to the race, 5 of those weeks were above 130kms, and I peaked the week before the race at 137kms.

The decision to (marginally) increase was based on the philosophy of NSM: the need to up CTL in order to drive adaptation.

In terms of doubles, I started doing "running doubles" probably around mid-2023 (before that I was biking as a double). And yes, the improvements were noticeable. There's obviously many other variables but my 10k time has gone from 35 down to 32 mins in that time.

Sorry if I offended you Paul, I do admire your dedication and consistency to running, and your articles have helped me improve my running

That's okay mate!

I get it, most people would think there's no point in running that much if you're not elite.

But I just enjoy running. I don't see it as a chore. And even though it's not "mega-mileage" (a-la Ran to Japan) my ability to handle that amount of running is one of the few advantages I seem to have when it comes to training.

I wondered this myself and my conclusion is not much - he ran around the same 6:09 time at the beginning of January when we started this process and ran 21 high for a 5K.

The bigger point though is this - he ran a 5:45 off of doing nothing in training faster than 7 minute pace. When he ran his 6:09 back in the summer I had him doing the traditional VO2 Max stuff and 400 intervals at goal pace or slightly faster and that's what he got. He used to be in a club that did a bunch of fast 300s and things of that nature and he never ran even approached breaking 6 minutes.

I also have a freshman girl that I've had doing this training since I stumbled upon it. She ran 2 back to back 1600 meter PRs in the 3200 last weekend and PRd in the 800 as well.

What got me thinking about trying this method was looking at the results that my XC team got in the fall. The athletes who improved the most were the ones who ran their easy days really easy and who never pushed their interval workouts to the max. My top 3 boys (which my older son is one of) all hammered their workouts and easy days and went in the tank towards the end of the season.

My younger son who is setting big PRs right now always ran what at the time I felt to be too slow. I was partially right - it was too slow with the longer recoveries he was getting. But now that we've shortened the recoveries he's getting the proper stimulus.

I've started training this way as well and ran the 3rd fastest time in the same 4 mile race I've been doing for years. And I'm 50 years old. The only time I've run significantly faster was in 2018 when I was 42 years old.

Like the famous Bowerman scene in "Without Limits" - It hurts to change, doesn't it?

Guys like Paul and FOD out run NSM quicker than most because of the extra milage they do with doubles.
I find FOD’s training system very good, mixes the threshold work in with other stimulus but still keeping it relatively under control.

I know it’s not popular but some people need to do X factor type workouts, even if it’s just regular park runs, one every 3 or 4 weeks. I think this is even more true for guys like Paul and FOD who are doing higher mileage and need some different stimulus to continue to drive gains.

NSM does have an end point, while most of us will never reach it, others will have to go looking for different stimulus to continue to drive gains. This is the stage Paul is at. Yes he could keep plugging away for the next 6 months and see if he eventually improves again or try something different and see if he improves again. Either way it’s a bit of guesswork.

Your channel cooler than ran to Japan. Keep it up man. You do a lot of good thinking so I’m sure you’ll get your PRs down. Running up big hills always good