I misremembered by a percent — the book recommends 93% of your 3 minute reps for 5k pace. It's on pg. 140.
The way you laid it out sounds right. Set your workout paces based on your recent 5k time, re-test in about a month based on how your workouts are going, adjust paces, and so on.
Thank you, I'll find it in the book for further info. It does sound like a sustainable way to just get faster month in, month out. A cheat code...now a 22:00 to 21:50 doesn't sound like much but it is something, and if you can do this with NO cutback weeks...
Wish I was injured as sirpoc. Cranked out three 5ks in mid 16s last week and did about 300w for the last 10 minutes yesterday on the bike. He's probably not in marathon shape, but he isn't stupid he's not expecting I would guess to do much more than run 2:30+. He's probably moved on from "just running". As someone else pointed out, what more really can he do as a runner at his age?
Didn't cheetodust say he got injured doing some speedwork with spikes in prep for a race? If anything this is the perfect advert for NSM and keeping it simple
Wigglewaffle, not sure. Last time he ran a marathon he took a month off or very easy. He seems to be doing that same, but cycling to hold some fitness.
There is course of the fact it's running. People can still get injured.
Wish I was injured as sirpoc. Cranked out three 5ks in mid 16s last week and did about 300w for the last 10 minutes yesterday on the bike. He's probably not in marathon shape, but he isn't stupid he's not expecting I would guess to do much more than run 2:30+. He's probably moved on from "just running". As someone else pointed out, what more really can he do as a runner at his age?
Didn't cheetodust say he got injured doing some speedwork with spikes in prep for a race? If anything this is the perfect advert for NSM and keeping it simple
Wigglewaffle, not sure. Last time he ran a marathon he took a month off or very easy. He seems to be doing that same, but cycling to hold some fitness.
There is course of the fact it's running. People can still get injured.
Mid 16s is lame and 300w is nothing for 10 mins. Try harder losers.
Fakt is, people claimed NSM stopped people from getting injured. Guess that's been memory-holed?
You guys should have joined a proper running club or asked a coach for help, would have saved you three years of regress and ultimate embarassement, including Le Messiah.
I replaced almost all easy runs with biking. 120 bpm on the bike is the same aerobic stimulus as 120 bpm running. The only difference is lack of musculoskeletal adaptations.
I don't think this is true, lactate readings, rpe, calories burned are all different across different sports at the same heart rate, so I doubt very much they have a like for like stimulus. In my experience my bike and swim heart rates are 15-20bpm lower than for the same zone/ effort.
Fakt is, people claimed NSM stopped people from getting injured. Guess that's been memory-holed?
You guys should have joined a proper running club or asked a coach for help, would have saved you three years of regress and ultimate embarassement, including Le Messiah.
Running 7 days a week with 3 workouts is going to get anyone injured. Also sub threshold is not an easy pace, it's still a push...
Running 7 days a week with 3 workouts is going to get anyone injured. Also sub threshold is not an easy pace, it's still a push...
Following NSM, this is the longest I've ever gone without an injury of any kind. I'm doing 3 workouts a week. Someone posted at one point how sirpoc managed something crazy like 350 straight workouts, three times a week.
I cannot even imagine another program that would have allowed me such a lot of work, over such a prolonged amount of time.
Obviously it's running, anything can get you injured. But this method is about as safe as I've ever seen when it comes to the risk of it.
Fakt is, people claimed NSM stopped people from getting injured. Guess that's been memory-holed?
You guys should have joined a proper running club or asked a coach for help, would have saved you three years of regress and ultimate embarassement, including Le Messiah.
Reducing injury risk != stop people getting injured.
Following NSM, this is the longest I've ever gone without an injury of any kind. I'm doing 3 workouts a week. Someone posted at one point how sirpoc managed something crazy like 350 straight workouts, three times a week.
I cannot even imagine another program that would have allowed me such a lot of work, over such a prolonged amount of time.
Obviously it's running, anything can get you injured. But this method is about as safe as I've ever seen when it comes to the risk of it.
Same here. I'm amazed how consistent I've been on NSM for 8 months now. Not a niggle, which I always had before. Just that by itself would have sold it to me, let alone the other aspects.
Following NSM, this is the longest I've ever gone without an injury of any kind. I'm doing 3 workouts a week. Someone posted at one point how sirpoc managed something crazy like 350 straight workouts, three times a week.
I cannot even imagine another program that would have allowed me such a lot of work, over such a prolonged amount of time.
Obviously it's running, anything can get you injured. But this method is about as safe as I've ever seen when it comes to the risk of it.
Same. Have been running for many years now. Never have had these two things:
A run of so many consecutive days stacked; and not having to have a single day off due to an injury or small niggle over such a long period of time.
Ultimately, I think the lack of likelihood of injury is probably why this training works. A lot of us are now realising consistency outweighs speed or specificity that brings big risks. So by staying healthy is presumably why so many people are getting fitter than they have before.
What sort of swim and bike sessions do you plan to bring into the vanilla rotation?
I only run 6 days/wk, have been swimming once per week for over a year. I usually only swim 1000-1200yd broken up into 200’s with 10-15s rest. I don’t have a swimming background, feels like a good workout and I’ve grown to enjoy it. Biking I usually do a simulated 3x10 sub T 88-92 % of FtP with sirpoc’s help. I just use a peloton bike at home. I figure 2-3 bike sessions per week once I’m back into the groove running again.
1 reason Anthony Ervin chose Cal Berkeley to swim at was a coach convinced him he could get aerobically developed without spending tons of time in the pool (through x-training on dry land). He won gold at 2000 Olympics as a 19 year old in the 50 free. Took ~9 year break from 2002-2011, but came back and won 2016 Olympics. When he got back into swimming he was doing 3 days swim/1 day off. WAY less compared to most swimmers, but he swam faster as a 35 year old than as a 19 yo. A good workout is a good workout!
Following NSM, this is the longest I've ever gone without an injury of any kind. I'm doing 3 workouts a week. Someone posted at one point how sirpoc managed something crazy like 350 straight workouts, three times a week.
I cannot even imagine another program that would have allowed me such a lot of work, over such a prolonged amount of time.
Obviously it's running, anything can get you injured. But this method is about as safe as I've ever seen when it comes to the risk of it.
Same. Have been running for many years now. Never have had these two things:
A run of so many consecutive days stacked; and not having to have a single day off due to an injury or small niggle over such a long period of time.
Ultimately, I think the lack of likelihood of injury is probably why this training works. A lot of us are now realising consistency outweighs speed or specificity that brings big risks. So by staying healthy is presumably why so many people are getting fitter than they have before.
Speed and specificity don't bring big injury risks as far as you know how to best perform them. You got to stay away from ' killer workouts' and only do the paces/ efforts with safe margin.
Speed and specificity don't bring big injury risks as far as you know how to best perform them. You got to stay away from ' killer workouts' and only do the paces/ efforts with safe margin.
I think if you read the vast majority of NSM success stories, the most common factor is removing speed or fast pace stuff away from people's training. This seems to have brought the biggest chance in staying fit, healthy and consistent. Myself included. The internet is littered now with hundreds if not thousands of people saying the same thing. Nobody has really dived deep to explain this. But it can't be a coincidence.
Maybe we were all just not understanding how to balance it, as you suggest. But, more likely, up to a certain level of hobby running, anything above LT2 is probably sub optimal and a hinderence, or at the very least a gamble on how it will eradicate the consistency NSM brings, which seems to trump just about anything
This thread is a giant case study really. The best thing being, it's not just beginners but hardened and seasoned runners who have made progress after years of trying to find the balance you hint at unsuccessfully.
Add me to others who have had what would be considered top coaches, not getting anywhere near the level of progress for me, opposed to that I am having now with one random guys self published book from the internet. It's kind of wild and if you told me a year ago finding a random thread on Letsrun would send me from a 17:30 lifetime guy to 15:54 I would have said you are mad, considering I have been at the mid 17 level for about 8 years and just assumed that was my ceiling. Turns out I was just overcooked, inconsistent and focused way too much on speed.
How much am I giving up (or not) by switching from standing to slow jog intervals? I find standing rest to be boring and it makes the reps seem more stressful and clinical. Thanks.