Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Easy days are 45-50 minutes, somewhere between 8:45-9:10/mi depending on how I'm feeling. For sub-T, I do 3x10' every week and the other session I alternate 5x6' and 10x3' weekly. Paces for those sessions are straight from lactrace. Long run is 80-90 minutes at the same pace as my easy days.

https://apps.runningwritings.com/pace-percent/

I have only done 6 min reps, rather than 3 min reps, so I'll see what I need to do.

22:00 5k last week

3-min reps at 7:27 (haven't done yet)

6-min reps at 7:39 (doing them a little slower to be safe, around 7:45-7:50-ish)

10-min reps at 7:53 (haven't done yet)

So does this mean if I do the 3-min reps at 7:27 correctly, for a month or so until I re-test, I should be able to run a 5k at some point in 7:02 pace (21:51), a slight improvement from the 22:00 a week ago? (7:02 is 94% of 7:27). And then just keep going using the new 21:51 as my baseline?

(Those paces would be 7:24/7:36/7:50 for 3-6-10-min. reps).

I read the book but I don't remember the 94% mention, unless it was in this thread.

SirPoc still looks like he’s in for Seville, which is next Sunday. Seems to be suggesting he’s pretty fit, but a bit fragile in terms of a niggle? Too early and I know forecasts can change, but weather forecast currently looks favourable. Best of luck to him.

Weather looks great. Thankfully, it wasn't this weekend! Lots of wind and rain in Seville.

Sirpoc posted his fitness is good, but not for a marathon as a slight injury has really stopped him doing the marathon work required. It really goes to show the jump from the half to the full is impossible without event specificity.

If anything, this thread has taught us it's perhaps the only event that requires it. Half and less, throwing a blanket over the training seems to work for the majority of us fine using NSM. Then you go up to ultra (which I have) you just need a really good base, a fueling plan and understand what pace you can hold.

But that damn marathon. It's fast enough to really race hard but long enough you can't just lock in with vanilla NSM and go.

Slightly unsure why I got 4 downvotes for asking a question?

But thanks to (Him) for responding helpfully, thank you very much indeed.

This is where sirpoc is dialled in, unlike unfortunately some of the YouTubers who never have a clue what they should be aiming for. I think he even posted here saying sub 2:20 is impossible and the chances are even a PR is off the table. 2:24 is quite a high bar to have to beat, when you are not even running regular 100km weeks anymore. I do wonder what his motivation is. He's ran a marathon 99.9% of hobby joggers will never get. He's won competitive regional races against runners 15-20 years his junior. He's the 5k British masters champ. On top of that he's I guess he's remembered he's a better cyclist than runner. Maybe the duathlon really is on. Who knows, he keeps himself mostly to himself compared to the usual online known hobby joggers and I think we all quite like that.

I do think this is also one of the upsides of this type of training. Not that I'm the first person to say that. But it shows, you pretty much know where you are and what is realistic.

What sort of swim and bike sessions do you plan to bring into the vanilla rotation?

I replaced almost all easy runs with biking. 120 bpm on the bike is the same aerobic stimulus as 120 bpm running. The only difference is lack of musculoskeletal adaptations.

120bpm on the run is around 112bpm on the bike for me, having matching HR levels at easier to compare horses for courses

I misremembered by a percent — the book recommends 93% of your 3 minute reps for 5k pace. It's on pg. 140.

The way you laid it out sounds right. Set your workout paces based on your recent 5k time, re-test in about a month based on how your workouts are going, adjust paces, and so on.

I don't think this is true, lactate readings, rpe, calories burned are all different across different sports at the same heart rate, so I doubt very much they have a like for like stimulus. In my experience my bike and swim heart rates are 15-20bpm lower than for the same zone/ effort.

Probably not. 3.0 mmol for me is 170 BPM running and only 156 BPM cycling. That isn't to say, what you are doing is bad, you can obviously do zone 2 safely on the bike where you might do zone 1 running. But, there is almost certainly going to be a difference in terms of the intensity of the workout.

For instance, even at the easier end, Lt1 for me running is 154 BPM and Lt1 cycling is 141 BPM.

There will be a general spread, but unless you have years of background in both like a Tri guy, it's unlikely they will line up very well.

Some of the protagonists of this thread also provide data we can use. Sirpoc, for example, his LTHR running is around 177-178 and it looks like on the bike is about 162. Same for cheetodust, as well as Wigglewaffle, reduced HR for the same lactate they have shared.

Just thought it was worth pointing out, it will be very difficult for someone who has a long background running NSM to then just hop on a bike and replicate HR 1:1 and get the same intensity. Best thing to do, is use the advantage of having proper power and use a % of FTP.

All of those suggestions sirpoc have have lined up spectacularly well for me. I ran a HM bang on based on the 10 min rep average and a 5k bang on based on the 3 min rep average. Both I was totally dead on the line and paced well.

There's so many golden nuggets in the book like this that can really, really help you improve outside of just running subthreshold 3 times a week. It's honestly a modern classic when it comes to a stress free guide to your running.

I was curious on this - I come from a cycling background and find that I can get my RPE on both easy runs and cycles to be the same HR wise, and don't have much difficulty getting to higher HRs on the bike. I assume that's cause my brain knows the pattern of putting out power on the bike?

Your problem is flipped. You are new ish to running, so you aren't currently using all your muscles, tendons, ligaments etc that you can to push the body to work at a higher HR because of the physical demands of running, plus you are fully adapted to cycling.

There is also the fact that for most, zone 2 RPE on the bike with regards to power, is probably the same as a run with the same RPE running, but is zone 1.

I have a mixed background and I have same maxHR, LTHR, etc for both sports.

Everyone is different and you can only determine what’s best for yourself.

For me it’s shockingly similar in terms of HR/RPE across running and cycling. Easy, moderate, subT, race pace. Never tested lactate though. Triathlon background.
I think it’s exactly because of motion pattern efficiency

I only run 6 days/wk, have been swimming once per week for over a year. I usually only swim 1000-1200yd broken up into 200’s with 10-15s rest. I don’t have a swimming background, feels like a good workout and I’ve grown to enjoy it. Biking I usually do a simulated 3x10 sub T 88-92 % of FtP with sirpoc’s help. I just use a peloton bike at home. I figure 2-3 bike sessions per week once I’m back into the groove running again.

Bummer to see a handful of guys from this thread injured or coming back from injury. Sirpoc, Cheetodust, Wiggle waffle, Eliud Bekele. Wishing them all the best on their recoveries!