Agree, the everyman appeal of sirpoc is certainly why NSM has gathered so much steam. Not sure if you are aware, but he’s also published a book on SESM (Southern English Snooker Method) which details his transition from half decent pub pool player to his first 147.
What's his highest break for real? Earl challenges him to some 9-ball. The real cue sport.
Does anyone here try these on a track? I usually run 40 seconds per mile faster outside than I do on the treadmill at the same effort/HR, so doing treadmill workouts is disheartening.
I was stuck on the treadmill for the past month and improved a decent amount, but was still slower than my last outdoor track workout. I was wondering if my outdoor paces improved despite only doing slower treadmill paces. And my track times also improved by the same amount which was kind of shocking and rewarding.
I would guess heat training would be the same. Just run at the correct effort even if it's much slower than ideal conditions, get the aerobic benefits, improve in those conditions, and your ideal condition times will also improve even if you haven't been able to touch on those speeds.
It's tough though! Some treadmill days I'm running 1mph slower than outdoors and I feel like I'm getting worse.
He's mentioned a couple of times, he works in construction as a plasterer. So an incredibly labour intensive job. I've always imagined if he can handle the training he does, in his 40s, job, responsibilities etc. then I can with my desk job where I can go get a coffee every 30 mins if I want to.
As for cadence. We have generally done this before and come to the conclusion of change things at your own peril. How you run is probably just how you run and if it's not causing injuries might be the last thing down the list to worry about.
The best thing about sirpoc, is he is just a normal guy. He gets up, goes to work and fits all this around the ups and downs of life. Anything he does, we all could do if we wanted to, even if the results might not be as good. We can still all make the same amount of time or effoet. It's why it's so relatable.
I actually stopped watching or listening to a lot of the "full time" YouTubers, because I genuinely think a lot of them are out of touch with reality quite quickly, or the demands of 8-10 hour a day jobs and then having your kids and other pressures to deal with at the end of the day. That's not all of them. But most now, are effectively full time athletes and one thing we have learned from this thread, is there isn't really much we can learn about from full time athletes.
Will start NSM tomorrow.
Have run about 180-185 in just base EZ mileage since 11 December 2025. My intervals.icu is nice and green right now. Just going by feel, EZ pace between 9:30-10:15 pace. Did a 5k TT today in 22:00 on a narrow, snowy track. I'm not fast. Went to Lactrace and got these #s:
8-12 sets of 3-4 min @ 7:33-7:46 (15k pace), 60s rest (probably walking or standing)
4-6 sets of 6-8 min @ 7:43-7:57 (1/2 pace), 60s rest as above
3 sets of 10-12 min @ 7:54-8:08 (full pace), 60s rest as above
EZ pace 10:25 (I thought I had slowed down but 9:30 is apparently too fast!). As I get more fit I'll be testing every 6-8 weeks. Got the book too, am reading it.
VDOT 44.5
Threshold pace 7:31/mi
These are not fast times but I'm going to stick with this for 6-8 mos. and see where I can go from here. As noted by others, I'll probably do these paces even slower than lactrace:
For the 3-4 min reps, I'll probably run 7:50-7:55.
Yeah I did 3x8' on the treadmill and went 12>12.2>12.4kph. Briefly grazed the underside of LTHR in the last minute of rep 3 without going over, so perfectly executed in terms of effort and HR, but tough to accept 5:00>4:50/km paces when my marathon PB pace is 4:34.
Does anyone here try these on a track? I usually run 40 seconds per mile faster outside than I do on the treadmill at the same effort/HR, so doing treadmill workouts is disheartening.
I was stuck on the treadmill for the past month and improved a decent amount, but was still slower than my last outdoor track workout. I was wondering if my outdoor paces improved despite only doing slower treadmill paces. And my track times also improved by the same amount which was kind of shocking and rewarding.
I would guess heat training would be the same. Just run at the correct effort even if it's much slower than ideal conditions, get the aerobic benefits, improve in those conditions, and your ideal condition times will also improve even if you haven't been able to touch on those speeds.
It's tough though! Some treadmill days I'm running 1mph slower than outdoors and I feel like I'm getting worse.
Keep in mind that, unless you've calibrated your treadmill recently, the number on the screen may not mean a whole lot. I measured the belt on mine, did a warmup, then counted the revolutions with a chalk mark as I did a subT rep on it and the belt speed was almost 5.5% faster than what the display said. For comparison sake: if you set your treadmill for 7:00/mi pace (8.6mph) and it's as uncalibrated as mine, you'd actually be running 6:37/mi pace (9.0-9.1mph) and wondering why you're getting cooked.
I'd recommend at least checking the calibration and making a mental note of the conversion if you're going to be doing workouts on the treadmill.
Does anyone here try these on a track? I usually run 40 seconds per mile faster outside than I do on the treadmill at the same effort/HR, so doing treadmill workouts is disheartening.
I was stuck on the treadmill for the past month and improved a decent amount, but was still slower than my last outdoor track workout. I was wondering if my outdoor paces improved despite only doing slower treadmill paces. And my track times also improved by the same amount which was kind of shocking and rewarding.
I would guess heat training would be the same. Just run at the correct effort even if it's much slower than ideal conditions, get the aerobic benefits, improve in those conditions, and your ideal condition times will also improve even if you haven't been able to touch on those speeds.
It's tough though! Some treadmill days I'm running 1mph slower than outdoors and I feel like I'm getting worse.
Keep in mind that, unless you've calibrated your treadmill recently, the number on the screen may not mean a whole lot. I measured the belt on mine, did a warmup, then counted the revolutions with a chalk mark as I did a subT rep on it and the belt speed was almost 5.5% faster than what the display said. For comparison sake: if you set your treadmill for 7:00/mi pace (8.6mph) and it's as uncalibrated as mine, you'd actually be running 6:37/mi pace (9.0-9.1mph) and wondering why you're getting cooked.
I'd recommend at least checking the calibration and making a mental note of the conversion if you're going to be doing workouts on the treadmill.
Yeah I also have one of these "slow" treadmills where something like 6:45 pace is more like 6:20 pace outside at an equivalent HR. The way I approach it is to focus on HR and accept that treadmill pace ≠ outdoor pace. You can still get good sub-t stimulus on the treadmill and one of the benefits is having the ability to precisely control effort by making small incremental changes to the speed or incline.
As long as my HR is equivalent to an outside workout, I don't worry about it.
My current goal for the next several months is to break my weak PBs in the 200, 400, and 800 while keeping or even continuing to build an aerobic base, so I'm testing a variation where I replace one of the Sub-T workouts with an anerobic workout but keep the rest pretty similar.
Doing workouts like 8x400 at mile pace with 2 minute rest, 2x300/200/100 at close to max pace, and sprint/float/sprint 400s. Also adding one rest day a week and may add a few strides to easy runs. I'm continuing to run lots of doubles, but that's so I can run both ways for my commute and I don't think matters much to the overall plan. It's probably less load overall, but two months in I'm feeling fresh and having fewer niggles than while using vanilla method. We'll see how it goes.
My current goal for the next several months is to break my weak PBs in the 200, 400, and 800 while keeping or even continuing to build an aerobic base, so I'm testing a variation where I replace one of the Sub-T workouts with an anerobic workout but keep the rest pretty similar.
Doing workouts like 8x400 at mile pace with 2 minute rest, 2x300/200/100 at close to max pace, and sprint/float/sprint 400s. Also adding one rest day a week and may add a few strides to easy runs. I'm continuing to run lots of doubles, but that's so I can run both ways for my commute and I don't think matters much to the overall plan. It's probably less load overall, but two months in I'm feeling fresh and having fewer niggles than while using vanilla method. We'll see how it goes.
My current goal for the next several months is to break my weak PBs in the 200, 400, and 800 while keeping or even continuing to build an aerobic base, so I'm testing a variation where I replace one of the Sub-T workouts with an anerobic workout but keep the rest pretty similar.
Doing workouts like 8x400 at mile pace with 2 minute rest, 2x300/200/100 at close to max pace, and sprint/float/sprint 400s. Also adding one rest day a week and may add a few strides to easy runs. I'm continuing to run lots of doubles, but that's so I can run both ways for my commute and I don't think matters much to the overall plan. It's probably less load overall, but two months in I'm feeling fresh and having fewer niggles than while using vanilla method. We'll see how it goes.
Thread is truly dead now.
If only NSM was around in Usain's pomp, he would have broken the 9 second barrier in the 100
If only NSM was around in Usain's pomp, he would have broken the 9 second barrier in the 100
I'm a middle-aged hobby jogger with very limited track background. If there are plans out there for training for 400-800 races, which almost nobody over 40 is interested in, I haven't found them.
So why not take the best plan that is tailored for middle aged hobby joggers and experiment with it?
We'll see--maybe after a couple months I'll come back and say everyone was right to take the piss and it blew up spectacularly.
I have gently increased my mileage up to 35-36 mpw, all EZ, and intervals.icu says it is in the green. Even though it's EZ pace (9:20-9:55), depending. No huge workouts, and only the 5k. I thought sirpoc said "gray is good" but I may be wrong. If it is green for too long does that indicate burnout? I am running low volume, not overdoing it, etc. It appears based on reading on reddit and elsewhere you don't want to be in the green unless you're in taper phase.
I'm not training for anything right now, just building base, but wondering if I'm doing this right. No red lines so I know I'm not overcooking that part of it. Just concerned if green = danger.
Does anyone just do the exact same workout every sub-threshold day? I've been doing NS for two months (all on the treadmill) and I just do 4:00 reps every time. I know what I'm getting into every day, and it's easy to see progress. I'm not sure I'll ever do any of the longer intervals. Going to a track would need to be distance based so I suppose it would change then. But I like the predictability of this method. You know you don't have to get hyped up for a hard workout. You know even if you feel dead you can accomplish it without much struggle. And the recovery is almost nothing.
Does anyone just do the exact same workout every sub-threshold day? I've been doing NS for two months (all on the treadmill) and I just do 4:00 reps every time. I know what I'm getting into every day, and it's easy to see progress. I'm not sure I'll ever do any of the longer intervals. Going to a track would need to be distance based so I suppose it would change then. But I like the predictability of this method. You know you don't have to get hyped up for a hard workout. You know even if you feel dead you can accomplish it without much struggle. And the recovery is almost nothing.
When I do my runs outside, I do the standard 3*10', 5'*6" and 10*3" each week. But now that I'm snowed in and doing workouts on the treadmill, I have only been running 6*5' and have no desire to try anything else.
I do like the consistency of doing the same workout on the treadmill. Also, I have to manually adjust the speed on mine and it takes a bit of time to speed up and slow down, so I think anything much shorter would be too much hassle. I also think longer reps on the treadmill would bore me, so 6*5' seems to work well for me.
I have gently increased my mileage up to 35-36 mpw, all EZ, and intervals.icu says it is in the green. Even though it's EZ pace (9:20-9:55), depending. No huge workouts, and only the 5k. I thought sirpoc said "gray is good" but I may be wrong. If it is green for too long does that indicate burnout? I am running low volume, not overdoing it, etc. It appears based on reading on reddit and elsewhere you don't want to be in the green unless you're in taper phase.
I'm not training for anything right now, just building base, but wondering if I'm doing this right. No red lines so I know I'm not overcooking that part of it. Just concerned if green = danger.
You have to remember, ramp rate is mainly designed for two things:
Periodization and also cyclists.
Once you start workouts, if you aren't in the grey constantly you probably have got your fitness levels wrong and/or you will be in a mini boom and bust.
When I started I was like this, got excited, felt good, built up into green on intervals, then next thing you know it's a mini boom and bust, which is what you are trying to avoid. There is the excellent graph in the book that explains it so well. You are basically looking to outrun/outload a faster ramp rate, over a long period of time.
You can't be in the green forever, there has to then be some down time. Whereas, you can have a ramp in the grey, for a very, very long time. Years, with the odd taper for a race you care about. This is a big, big shift in a lot of people's training and understanding. I think it's why a lot of people, for them the method is simple but you really habe to understand what you are doing medium and long term.
For you, with just easy running and low mileage. Maybe it's OK? But once you start workouts, I think the "grey ok" is probably what fits for the vast majority having long term success. There was a big post on Reddit about it and just about everyone who was 6+ months in was in this area and had improved.
My current goal for the next several months is to break my weak PBs in the 200, 400, and 800 while keeping or even continuing to build an aerobic base, so I'm testing a variation where I replace one of the Sub-T workouts with an anerobic workout but keep the rest pretty similar.
Doing workouts like 8x400 at mile pace with 2 minute rest, 2x300/200/100 at close to max pace, and sprint/float/sprint 400s. Also adding one rest day a week and may add a few strides to easy runs. I'm continuing to run lots of doubles, but that's so I can run both ways for my commute and I don't think matters much to the overall plan. It's probably less load overall, but two months in I'm feeling fresh and having fewer niggles than while using vanilla method. We'll see how it goes.
I have gently increased my mileage up to 35-36 mpw, all EZ, and intervals.icu says it is in the green. Even though it's EZ pace (9:20-9:55), depending. No huge workouts, and only the 5k. I thought sirpoc said "gray is good" but I may be wrong. If it is green for too long does that indicate burnout? I am running low volume, not overdoing it, etc. It appears based on reading on reddit and elsewhere you don't want to be in the green unless you're in taper phase.
I'm not training for anything right now, just building base, but wondering if I'm doing this right. No red lines so I know I'm not overcooking that part of it. Just concerned if green = danger.
You have to remember, ramp rate is mainly designed for two things:
Periodization and also cyclists.
Once you start workouts, if you aren't in the grey constantly you probably have got your fitness levels wrong and/or you will be in a mini boom and bust.
When I started I was like this, got excited, felt good, built up into green on intervals, then next thing you know it's a mini boom and bust, which is what you are trying to avoid. There is the excellent graph in the book that explains it so well. You are basically looking to outrun/outload a faster ramp rate, over a long period of time.
You can't be in the green forever, there has to then be some down time. Whereas, you can have a ramp in the grey, for a very, very long time. Years, with the odd taper for a race you care about. This is a big, big shift in a lot of people's training and understanding. I think it's why a lot of people, for them the method is simple but you really habe to understand what you are doing medium and long term.
For you, with just easy running and low mileage. Maybe it's OK? But once you start workouts, I think the "grey ok" is probably what fits for the vast majority having long term success. There was a big post on Reddit about it and just about everyone who was 6+ months in was in this area and had improved.
Appreciate you! How do you actually get the workouts then to go from green back to gray? I'll keep reading the book.
Would it be slowing down my already soft EZ paces? I'll do the workouts as prescribed, the last 4-6 have been in the green, I get trying to get back to gray.
If there are plans out there for training for 400-800 races, which almost nobody over 40 is interested in, I haven't found them.
So why not take the best plan that is tailored for middle aged hobby joggers and experiment with it?
Because the NSA approach is targeting the 5k - 21km distances (and really less the 5km than the 10km - 21km). It's not targeting sprints, or even middle distances to be honest.
You'd be better doing Feed The Cats for a few months to set PBs in the 200 and the 400 (and still probably PR the 800 in the process) and lifting than this. And I say that as a middle-aged hobby jogger who has been experimenting with NSA for 2+ years now.