I think we haven't seen yet in this very long thread examples of how runners now on NSM trained before they switched to it?
There’s literally so many posts on this (including many pages of interminable discussion of sirpoc’s previous training). I get it if you can’t be bothered reading the whole thing, but commenting to say something isn’t there when it’s been one of main topics discussion is prime helmet posting.
I know this has come up but searching the thread is impossible now. I'm injured and mixing running and stationary bike (more or less mimicking NSM on the bike). I'm minded to add up the TSS from both so that CTL doesn't collapse completely. Is there any guidance for how to do that, e.g. a formula for bike TSS that's reasonably compatible with run TSS? For runs I'm using the standard duration * (pace/1hr pace)^2. The obvious approach is duration * (watts/FTP)^2 but if there's a better way I'd like to hear it.
The book discusses this in excellent detail. Highly recommended reading for other reasons as well.
Anyhow, if you plan your different sessions in intervals.icu using the same heart rate, you'll get a ballpark ratio for the TTS that's in line with the book's discussion. (Intervals.icu requires approx 25% more time for the same TTS for a bike ride than for running, using the same heart rate.)
I know this has come up but searching the thread is impossible now. I'm injured and mixing running and stationary bike (more or less mimicking NSM on the bike). I'm minded to add up the TSS from both so that CTL doesn't collapse completely. Is there any guidance for how to do that, e.g. a formula for bike TSS that's reasonably compatible with run TSS? For runs I'm using the standard duration * (pace/1hr pace)^2. The obvious approach is duration * (watts/FTP)^2 but if there's a better way I'd like to hear it.
Same situation, would be interested also.
Have tried 4' reps / 1' easy, but it's hard to get HR up after so many years of not cycling.
What worked better for me is to do a 30" hard start on the 4' and settle on the sweetspot after that. Still even with this protocol i'm give or take hitting the easy run HR on the bike.
As mentioned in the book and comment above, cycling sessions should be extended by approx 20-30% compared to running time to give equivalent aerobic benefits so being unable to run with Achilles pain I'm mainly doing at the minute all indoor at the gym: Mon: 60 mins keeping below 70% maxHR indoor cycling or elliptical or mix 30 mins of each. Aerobically equivalent to approx 45 mins run using the conversion. Tues: Sweetspot bike or elliptical either 3x15mins or 2x20 mins. Aerobically Equivalent to approx 30 mins sub t running workout. Wed: 60 mins below 70% maxHR cycling or elliptical or 30 mins each mix Thurs: Sweetspot bike or elliptical: 4x10mins Fri: 60 mins bike or elliptical or 30 mins each mix Sat: Sweetspot bike or elliptical: 8x5mins Sun: 2 hours below 70% maxHr on bike or elliptical or 1 hour on each mix. Aerobically equivalent to approx 90 minute run. Works out at 8 hours. Load varies from about 350-400 on intervals.icu.
I know this has come up but searching the thread is impossible now. I'm injured and mixing running and stationary bike (more or less mimicking NSM on the bike). I'm minded to add up the TSS from both so that CTL doesn't collapse completely. Is there any guidance for how to do that, e.g. a formula for bike TSS that's reasonably compatible with run TSS? For runs I'm using the standard duration * (pace/1hr pace)^2. The obvious approach is duration * (watts/FTP)^2 but if there's a better way I'd like to hear it.
Same situation, would be interested also.
Have tried 4' reps / 1' easy, but it's hard to get HR up after so many years of not cycling.
What worked better for me is to do a 30" hard start on the 4' and settle on the sweetspot after that. Still even with this protocol i'm give or take hitting the easy run HR on the bike.
For me HR is about 13% lower doing what feels like the bike equivalent of easy running and 11% lower for 3min ST reps (right around easy run HR). I'm not sure if it's better to match running effort or HR but I don't think I could match HR without giving up or puking. Spiking it by starting each rep hard as you say is worth exploring.
Using the same formula and replacing pace with power, will over-value bike work so I'll take off 11-13% to factor in my personal HR difference (or 25% as The Book mentioned above although I'm not on intervals.icu).
As mentioned in the book and comment above, cycling sessions should be extended by approx 20-30% compared to running time to give equivalent aerobic benefits so being unable to run with Achilles pain I'm mainly doing at the minute all indoor at the gym: Mon: 60 mins keeping below 70% maxHR indoor cycling or elliptical or mix 30 mins of each. Aerobically equivalent to approx 45 mins run using the conversion. Tues: Sweetspot bike or elliptical either 3x15mins or 2x20 mins. Aerobically Equivalent to approx 30 mins sub t running workout. Wed: 60 mins below 70% maxHR cycling or elliptical or 30 mins each mix Thurs: Sweetspot bike or elliptical: 4x10mins Fri: 60 mins bike or elliptical or 30 mins each mix Sat: Sweetspot bike or elliptical: 8x5mins Sun: 2 hours below 70% maxHr on bike or elliptical or 1 hour on each mix. Aerobically equivalent to approx 90 minute run. Works out at 8 hours. Load varies from about 350-400 on intervals.icu.
That's very useful, thanks. How are you determining sweetspot on the bike - by HR or power (e.g. FTP), or something more subjective?
By HR. I only have access to an old stationary bike at the gym so no power. I believe bike maxHR is 5-15 beats lower than running so I've taken mine to be 10 lower than running HR. I keep the reps then to approx 77-85% of this estimated cycling maxHR. It's not the most precise but it's good enough for my current purposes of getting fitter and losing some weight before trying to dip into running again once the Achilles is better.
As mentioned in the book and comment above, cycling sessions should be extended by approx 20-30% compared to running time to give equivalent aerobic benefits
Hope you get better soon.
This is good info. Of course I only skimmed the cross training chapter a few weeks back, thinking it wouldn't really be relevant...
Seems like I'm in the right ballpark with my 8x4min then. Thinking I'll up the intensity a bit getting used to the pedalling, and only then add reps. Anyway hoping this is over in a week and I'm back on the road.
Does anyone know what Sirpoc does for work? Is he on his feet all day or is he in an office? Does he post his workout data? I'd be curious how much his paces differ on days he's feeling drained.
Also curious about his stride frequency since I've seen people say it's "high". I also sit around 190-200 steps per minute on easy/moderate runs and 225 for 800m races. Fewer steps than that and I feel like too much force is being applied through my legs for that pace. I used to be a 165spm guy and now 200 feels very natural and efficient so I think it's ideal for most people if they can do it. No injuries either since ground contact time is lower and force per step is lower
Does anyone know what Sirpoc does for work? Is he on his feet all day or is he in an office? Does he post his workout data? I'd be curious how much his paces differ on days he's feeling drained.
Also curious about his stride frequency since I've seen people say it's "high". I also sit around 190-200 steps per minute on easy/moderate runs and 225 for 800m races. Fewer steps than that and I feel like too much force is being applied through my legs for that pace. I used to be a 165spm guy and now 200 feels very natural and efficient so I think it's ideal for most people if they can do it. No injuries either since ground contact time is lower and force per step is lower
Sirpoc works as a lion tamer. He has to be his toes all day due to the nature of his occupation. He never, ever shares any of his workout data. His cadence is high because he has abnormally short, fat legs. Your cadence is much lower and you have normal legs. But Sirpoc is much faster than you will ever be. It is all covered in his excellent book. You should buy it.
It sounds like he's generally on his feet all day (based on the book and his comments elsewhere). at this point all his workouts are posted on strava. If you go back several years it can be hit or miss.
Does anyone know what Sirpoc does for work? Is he on his feet all day or is he in an office? Does he post his workout data? I'd be curious how much his paces differ on days he's feeling drained.
Also curious about his stride frequency since I've seen people say it's "high". I also sit around 190-200 steps per minute on easy/moderate runs and 225 for 800m races. Fewer steps than that and I feel like too much force is being applied through my legs for that pace. I used to be a 165spm guy and now 200 feels very natural and efficient so I think it's ideal for most people if they can do it. No injuries either since ground contact time is lower and force per step is lower
He's mentioned a couple of times, he works in construction as a plasterer. So an incredibly labour intensive job. I've always imagined if he can handle the training he does, in his 40s, job, responsibilities etc. then I can with my desk job where I can go get a coffee every 30 mins if I want to.
As for cadence. We have generally done this before and come to the conclusion of change things at your own peril. How you run is probably just how you run and if it's not causing injuries might be the last thing down the list to worry about.
I think the confusion comes from someone bringing up the friel test - using a maximum effort 30 minute run and using that heart rate as your threshold heart rate. When Sirpoc says to use your 15k pace (therefore 15k hr) for your 3 Minute reps. These two things are saying use your 30 Minute heart rate and also your 15k hr. These are different heart rates. Sometimes wildly so.
I think you are confusing some things. Your LTHR from a Friel test is worked out using 96-98% of your average HR for the last 20min of the test, not your actual HR during the test.
15km pace is totally different to 15km HR and no one is saying use 30min HR and 15km HR, in fact no one has said that. Do not confuse race paces with whatever HR you hit in those races.
When people say use 15km pace for 3min reps, it means the pace you average for a 15km race is what you should average for the 3min reps. This should mean your HR on the first 3min rep will be 10-15 beats lower than your LTHR and just touch your LTHR right at the end of the last 3min rep.
Does anyone know what Sirpoc does for work? Is he on his feet all day or is he in an office? Does he post his workout data? I'd be curious how much his paces differ on days he's feeling drained.
Also curious about his stride frequency since I've seen people say it's "high". I also sit around 190-200 steps per minute on easy/moderate runs and 225 for 800m races. Fewer steps than that and I feel like too much force is being applied through my legs for that pace. I used to be a 165spm guy and now 200 feels very natural and efficient so I think it's ideal for most people if they can do it. No injuries either since ground contact time is lower and force per step is lower
Sirpoc works as a lion tamer. He has to be his toes all day due to the nature of his occupation. He never, ever shares any of his workout data. His cadence is high because he has abnormally short, fat legs. Your cadence is much lower and you have normal legs. But Sirpoc is much faster than you will ever be. It is all covered in his excellent book. You should buy it.
He's mentioned a couple of times, he works in construction as a plasterer. So an incredibly labour intensive job. I've always imagined if he can handle the training he does, in his 40s, job, responsibilities etc. then I can with my desk job where I can go get a coffee every 30 mins if I want to.
As for cadence. We have generally done this before and come to the conclusion of change things at your own peril. How you run is probably just how you run and if it's not causing injuries might be the last thing down the list to worry about.
The best thing about sirpoc, is he is just a normal guy. He gets up, goes to work and fits all this around the ups and downs of life. Anything he does, we all could do if we wanted to, even if the results might not be as good. We can still all make the same amount of time or effoet. It's why it's so relatable.
I actually stopped watching or listening to a lot of the "full time" YouTubers, because I genuinely think a lot of them are out of touch with reality quite quickly, or the demands of 8-10 hour a day jobs and then having your kids and other pressures to deal with at the end of the day. That's not all of them. But most now, are effectively full time athletes and one thing we have learned from this thread, is there isn't really much we can learn about from full time athletes.
He's mentioned a couple of times, he works in construction as a plasterer. So an incredibly labour intensive job. I've always imagined if he can handle the training he does, in his 40s, job, responsibilities etc. then I can with my desk job where I can go get a coffee every 30 mins if I want to.
As for cadence. We have generally done this before and come to the conclusion of change things at your own peril. How you run is probably just how you run and if it's not causing injuries might be the last thing down the list to worry about.
The best thing about sirpoc, is he is just a normal guy. He gets up, goes to work and fits all this around the ups and downs of life. Anything he does, we all could do if we wanted to, even if the results might not be as good. We can still all make the same amount of time or effoet. It's why it's so relatable.
I actually stopped watching or listening to a lot of the "full time" YouTubers, because I genuinely think a lot of them are out of touch with reality quite quickly, or the demands of 8-10 hour a day jobs and then having your kids and other pressures to deal with at the end of the day. That's not all of them. But most now, are effectively full time athletes and one thing we have learned from this thread, is there isn't really much we can learn about from full time athletes.
Agree, the everyman appeal of sirpoc is certainly why NSM has gathered so much steam. Not sure if you are aware, but he’s also published a book on SESM (Southern English Snooker Method) which details his transition from half decent pub pool player to his first 147.
The best thing about sirpoc, is he is just a normal guy. He gets up, goes to work and fits all this around the ups and downs of life. Anything he does, we all could do if we wanted to, even if the results might not be as good. We can still all make the same amount of time or effoet. It's why it's so relatable.
I actually stopped watching or listening to a lot of the "full time" YouTubers, because I genuinely think a lot of them are out of touch with reality quite quickly, or the demands of 8-10 hour a day jobs and then having your kids and other pressures to deal with at the end of the day. That's not all of them. But most now, are effectively full time athletes and one thing we have learned from this thread, is there isn't really much we can learn about from full time athletes.
Agree, the everyman appeal of sirpoc is certainly why NSM has gathered so much steam. Not sure if you are aware, but he’s also published a book on SESM (Southern English Snooker Method) which details his transition from half decent pub pool player to his first 147.
He could write a book on winning a food-eating contest. It's about pacing yourself, and increasing consumption over time.