Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

I am constantly amazed at how many people cannot understand that words can have different meanings depending on the context. Here is a simple guide for those too lazy to look it up themselves.

Lactate Threshold (LT2), or Anaerobic Threshold - below this point you are aerobic, above you are anaerobic and fatigue accumulates quickly

Lactate Threshold Heart Rate: an approximation of what HR corresponds to that above LT2. Note it is an approximation and can vary greatly depending on conditions, but since HR is much easier to monitor in real time can still be very useful.

Sub-threshold: staying below LT2 (and above LT1 generally, but let's ignore that for now).

Threshold Pace: often used to describe the approximate pace that you can run at for 45mins - 1 hour while remaining below LT2. Sometimes alternatively considered tempo pace, though sometimes they are different. Depends on the coach/author/person. Important to note that this is an arbitrary time choice, and has nothing to do with anything being discussed in this thread or in the book. It uses an arbitrary time period that could be 10k pace for amateurs or HM pace for elites. Can be useful for some, but is irrelevant to any of these discussions.

The stated goal of the training is to run intervals and remain under LT2. Since few people know their LT2 and measure lactate during runs, the easier option is to run intervals where your HR stays under LTHR. If you prefer to run by feel, this is often described as comfortablely hard or a 5-6/10 RPE.

You can run shorter reps faster since holding a pace gets harder over time. Obviously. If they didn't, your 5k Pace would = 10k pace would = HM pace, etc.

So if you are maintaining RPE/effort you go faster on shorter reps, slower on longer reps.

Many people have found that for 3 min reps, this effort corresponds to 15km pace (or maybe 1 hour pace). 6min reps to HM. 10 min reps to 30k pace. 1 min reps to 10k pace.

How is anyone confused by this still?

Interesting. Maybe I'm different but if I went at 96% of my friel heart rate I'm totally gassed fwiw. There's no way could I do 3 or 4 Minute repetitions at that heart rate and recover within 60 seconds between each run. Not to mention that heart rate is already above my threshold. That turns what's supposed to be an easyish workout into something much more fatiguing. Is threshold not generally around 80% to 85% of your maximum heart rate? Like the other poster saying a 172 hr might be their threshold with a max of 190. That just seems too high of an effort based on my running experience. That's where I'd be with an actual hard 400/800m interval session working on 5k race paces

I think threshold should be about 90% of max.

I think the confusion comes from someone bringing up the friel test - using a maximum effort 30 minute run and using that heart rate as your threshold heart rate. When Sirpoc says to use your 15k pace (therefore 15k hr) for your 3 Minute reps. These two things are saying use your 30 Minute heart rate and also your 15k hr. These are different heart rates. Sometimes wildly so.

You're not averaging that, that's the cap on your workout HR. If you go over that at any point, you've pushed too hard. Some people touch up near it on the last few reps, other people don't come within 5 beats of it.

Many people will find that the reps don’t correspond to these paces. So that is one area of confusion, but it keeps on being repeated.

And that is why you have other metrics like HR or RPE. If they are too hard, slow down a bit. If they are too easy, speed up a bit. They are guidelines to help, but nothing is going to work for everyone and at some point you have to think for yourself. I just don't see how this is worth arguing after 500+ pages and a book.

But the prescription is not to use your 15k HR. Its to use your 15k pace, for 3 min at once. Which will get you just below your Friel HR at the end of the last rep. If you get above it in the reps before, you need to use a slower pace until you improve enough to use the prescribed pace.

also note that the book specifies 60 min pace not 15k in the tables since it scales better from person to person.

Who is going to be able to run 15k/60 min pace HR for all the 3 min reps? That is your LTHR. The whole idea, is you can touch upon that pace, but in 3 mins clear lactate quick enough that likely you will get nowhere near your HR from a 45-60 minute race, or at least somewhat close towards or near the end of the session. This will also keep lactate much lower, than of course if you tested at the end of 60 mins straight.

It's kind of scary how many people still don't understand how you can manipulate time and paces to keep HR controlled, with the use of short to medium intervals. A friel test to have a good guess of your LTHR is nothing more than a safety net to stop you overcooking sessions. Which is what the whole point of broken reps is in the first place. Control.

Sorry, I just saw your post before I replied myself. For someone to use their HR from a 15k/60 min pace for all the reps, just imagine how fast they would need to be running over 3 min reps? Way beyond 15k pace and you would be absolutely cooked by the end and impossible to repeat 3 times a week. It would be funny if this is how someone understands it. They would be 1. An idiot and 2. Have read basically nothing about the methodology.

Another one!

And seriously, people, RTFB! This thread should be dead until sirpoc runs sub-15 or something.

It's just damn scary how many people somehow miss the entire point of the most basic, easy to follow plans around.

Follow the paces prescribed on the lactrace website or in the book. Check HR/RPE. Review paces regularly. It's not rocket science.

People seem to be going down rabbit holes that don't even need to be looked in.

So why even use the term 15k pace. 15k isn’t a race distance. Better to use the term 60 min pace.

As an interested reader of this thread over nearly three years I've come to accept the periodic attempts to derail. The current attempt is new and different. Previous attempts all acted like they knew more, were smarter. We're currently experiencing a new tactic, appear dumber. So far it seems to be catching many by surprise. I'm confident the thread immune system is strong enough to eventually recover.

I think we haven't seen yet in this very long thread examples of how runners now on NSM trained before they switched to it?

My apologize if it has been but I couldn't plow through over 10000 comments.

I started doing NSM at the start of January after 18months of injury/sickness (2025 might be the least I've ran in a year since I 2012). I have my first race at the end of March. Once I get through this race, I can type up a basic synopsis of how I trained pre NSM as well as my PBs from this style of training.

It's just to help gauge intensity. 10k is a common distance, half marathon (21.1k) is a common distance, and full marathon (42.2k) is a common distance. 15k sits between 10k and HM and 30k between HM and FM.