Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

Your spin there -- "Ukraine comes to it's [sic] senses" -- is disgusting. Who the fvck are you to characterize people fighting and dying for their homeland against a murderous invader as people making nonsensical decisions? Ukrainians have shown they are willing to die by the thousands and have their women and children be terrorized by Russian thugs just to avoid being occupied by Russians. Their eyes are wide open to the terror and war conditions they live with every day and the decisions they make. Anyone who questions their bravery, sacrifice, patriotism and desire to live life on their own terms with cheap sh!t like "come to your senses" is a heartless, cowardly scumbag on par with the Russian invaders.

Ukraine will fight against invading Russians as long as they want to. The US and its allies will support that effort as long as Ukraine wants. Decent people will acknowledge their desires to be free of invasion and occupation and the sacrifices they make to achieve that. Other abnormal people, like yourself, Lolly and Carmine, are just all around horrible human beings day in and day out.

In Switzerland, Germany and Austria his public lectures sell out. Lots of people see the logic in his theories and as a distance colleague of his, I absolutely do too. Jet fuel can't melt steel beams, buddy. I wonder if you even know how many planes there were and how many buildings collapsed. Most Americans think it's two.

By the way, what do you do for living? Sell tires? Own a hardware store? Male nurse?

Masses are stupid and follow agenda cleverly pushed by a few. While simple Ukrainians are so heroically dying in battles protecting their homeland, they should have known, that this war was absolutely not necessary and they were pushed into it by so-called "friends from the West".

West-Ukraine was manipulated into chosing sides, while they could have been a perfect bridge between the West and Russia.

And, as we all know (except for the deluded loonies) that the US did not overthrow the government of Ukraine. The majority of Ukrainians want nothing to do with the failed sh*thole that is Russia. When the government said, "Russia!" the people of Ukraine said, "F*ck off!" and Yanukovych said, "I'm out!" And then Ukraine was happy until Russia decided to invaded Crimea and start a war in Donbas. The only unfortunate thing is that the US and NATO didn't crush Russia 8 years ago.

I get it. Your mommy and daddy spent their whole lives trying to tell you how great the U.S.S.R was. Here's some news for you. It wasn't. It was a failed sh*thole. Just like the Russian Federation.

Clearly. If they're going to lectures by a hack like Daniele_Ganser they are stupid.

Of course the war wasn't necessary. Russia could have just stayed in Russia, because clearly Ukrainians don't want them in Ukraine.

As you said, the masses in Switzerland are very stupid and easily mislead. Just because you applied to be a janitor at ETH, doesn't make you his colleague.

Hey Ukraine can keep "winning" as long as they want. There is still going to be no electricity and warm water. Maybe even for several years.

And it could be over so quick. Freedom to Donbas, sign no NATO agreement and they can already let that sweet sweet EU money flow to West-Ukraine.

The US embargoed Japan and provided arms to the Chinese during Japan's attempted territorial conquest in the years leading up to the Pearl Harbor attack, if that's what you mean.

The Pearl Harbor attack was largely motivated by the US oil embargo against Japan pending Japan's unconditional withdraw from China.

Masses are easily mislead everywhere, but they're the most stupid in the US (general consensus within the EU).

If you don't like that, then AMI GO HOME. Actually, go home in any case. Let's close every US military base in the EU and we'll see who needs who more :)

You're right (for once). It could be over so quickly. Russian troops leave Ukraine (remember, you stated foreign troops outside their borders should be illegal) and Ukraine stays a sovereign country controlling their own destiny (including joining NATO and EU if they want), so that sweet sweet EU money can help them rebuild and that sweet sweet NATO defense can keep Russia out.

Yes, oil and scrap metal embargo was one of the main reasons. What added to escalation is that the US ships were constantly invading Japanese controlled waters.

Just like in Vietnam, btw. Whenever there's a war, miraculously the US finds a way to get involved :)

It is instructive to compare numbers with the Afghan-Soviet war, one which the USSR lost, despite being in much better shape militarily than Putin's current paper-mache' tiger.

Population: 265M USSR v. 38M Afghan, compared to as you stated Russia/Ukraine 143M v. 43M

Casualties: 68K USSR/100K+ Afghan over ten years. Today: 100k+Russian/100K+ Ukrainian in only ten months

Both Ukraine and Afghans started as poorly mobilized, but their grit and determination against imperialistic invasion was greatly underestimated by Russian leadership in both cases, and while USSR had the benefit of holding the cities and a puppet government, the West provided munitions enough to keep an insurgency which broke the will of the Soviets. The key was regime change in the USSR. The current war is that conflict accelerated more than 10x, and Russia is straining already in ways economically and materially that they never did in the '80s. Putin has been careful to protect the Moscow-Petersburg bubble from the stress of this war, but another round of mobilization, more body bags coming and a bleak economic picture all are funneling towards a regime change.

On the Ukraine side, as tough as the blackouts and missile strikes are, as great as the casualties may be, compared to other such conflicts (Afghanistan, Vietnam, WWII), the impact is no greater, often less, than for those countries that emerged victorious from the rubble, and no one doubts the backbone and morale of the Ukrainians compared those Samson v. Goliath-type clashes, especially with the backing of almost the entire free world behind them.

As for leftover Soviet Cold War artillery stockpiles, you neglect the sensitivity and shelf life of ammunition, in a situation where Russia has shown piss-poor quality control and logistical ability. Also, Putin has been in several wars since then, and corrupt military logisticians have sold countless quantities of the stockpiles on the black market (the "Merchant of Death" Mr. Bout didn't make those arms himself). And meanwhile Russia has lost it's manufacturing power, especially in the more technical areas. They have to refurbish old t-62s laboriously by hand, since the original factories are gone. Just today they tried to put a brand new Mi-17 into the air prior to selling it to CCP, and....*opps*:

Russia is a spent cultural, political and military force. It won't take ten years to fold their tent this time.

It is illegal and I absolutely do not support Putin.

You're also right for once. Except that sweet sweet NATO needs to be either disbanded or at least broken up in 2 pieces: the US military and the EU military.

Without US involvement, Russia wouldn't have had to invade in the first place. Like I said, ANYONE can be provoked into being aggressive.

Here's a great article for those, who would like to inform themselves about the theory, that the US not only knew about Pearl Harbour attack, but also provoked it.

britannica.com

Pearl Harbor And The ‘Back Door To War’ Theory | Description & Facts

Was there a “back door” to World War II, as some revisionist historians have asserted? According to this view, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, inhibited by the American public’s opposition to direct U.S. involvement in the f...

Link:www.britannica.com/topic/Pearl-Harbor-...

I guess this is what it’s like to watch a grown a** man cry like a f*cking baby on the internet. “Russia HAD to invade Ukraine because the mean mean Americans made them.” F*cking Christ you’re an idiot.

That is a great article, as it clearly spells out that only a few nutjobs agree with you. There are an equal number of idiots that believe the earth is flat. I bet you find then convincing as well.

Conclusion from Lolly’s article:

Most historians have rejected the claims of Beard, Tansill, and Buchanan as reductionist and unconvincing. These historians do agree that Roosevelt engaged in deception and manipulation to advance his foreign policies and that he was prevented from seeking a formal declaration of war in the first years of the fighting because of continued public support for U.S. neutrality. Nevertheless, they argue that this does not show that Roosevelt intentionally provoked the Japanese to attack the United States or that he allowed the country to be surprised at Pearl Harbor.

You're a moran, if you don't understand the premise. Only a closed-minded degenerate can't see that this entire thing was preplanned. But what should I expect from a blue collar worker with no education :)

It would be so impressively naive not to understand that the US has all the power and recources in the world to steer the world in a preferred direction. Only a couple countries are still left that the US can't effectively control: i.E. Saudi Arabia and China. Russia and a few others are barely hanging on for their independence.

I really do hope that Saudis and China will pull Petroyuan off. You guys need to taste your own medicine :)

There's many more historians who believe this theory to be true. Most historians understandably love the safety of their jobs much more than they'd care to take a different position. Just like it's unsafe to criticize transgender athletes in women's sports, it's also unsafe to publicly investigate US involvement in wars and 9/11.

Nonethless, fact no. 1: The US lied about being attacked to start Vietnam war. Fact no. 2: The US lied about mass weapons to start war in Iran. Therefore I doubt very little that the US also didn't also lie /manipulate to start any other war. This is just something your country does :)

No, you summed it up perfectly. Russia is barely hanging on and this invasion was a last gasp at global relevance. Sadly (for you and Carmine), it’s shown the Russia is even further removed from superpower status than anyone could have imagined.