has anyone been hit by this latest flu past 1-2 months? I feel fine now but my heart rate during easy runs now is +20 (from 135-140 to 155-165), curious how long it takes to get over this
Well, I don't know my threshold rate. I've never used a lactate tester, which is why I asked in terms of HR.
I would recommend doing a Friel test to get a rough estimate of your threshold HR. Then aim to keep the reps under that, with the fist rep 7-10 beats under and the last rep just touching your threshold HR in the last part of the last rep. Don’t stress too much about it, might take a few sessions to dial in paces, just be conservative to start with. Doing the same sessions every week you quickly get a feel for it.
I just looked up the Friel test. How TF is a 30-minute all-out race equal to someone's threshold HR? That's like 95% of my maximum HR and so far above threshold.
The Norwegian Singles info says 15k pace for the 3-4 minute reps. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
A coach might even be a worse option. A lot of people have reported being coached, not really improved and then a 6-12 month dose of this got them huge gains.
This is true. Most coaches I know, and Jan is the perfect example, are unwilling to change, to evolve, to accept that there is something better than what they offer.
I have been a coach for decades and I am always learning. I started testing NSM on myself last year and had incredible results - after I accepted that my easy runs had to be easy or else...
This year I used NSM on all of my runners, who run 5km to the marathon. I coach 12 runners. All but one ran PRs in 2025 (that one underwent surgery in March).
Examples, 3:52 to 3:28 in the marathon. 1:29 to 1:24 half marathon. 43:22 to 40:21, 46:58 to 42:01, 38:57 to 36:27 in the 10km. 18:50 to 17:49 in the 5km.
I include one VO2max/hill session every two or three weeks because they ask me to have a faster session once in a while. That's the only change I make to NSM.
It works.
This is exactly what I am doing, I wouldn't necessarily call it a VO2max session, but I do have a workout that we do every other week that is a bit faster than the NSM paces.
I came to this conclusion after watching my son this past XC season. He had some good improvement to about mid season, then he plateaued and ultimately went in the tank. The athletes who ran more of a moderate effort on our intervals and ran their easy runs easier had sustained success throughout the season and my conclusion is they never reached that burnout/plateau stage because their training stimulus was balanced between work and recovery while my son was never recovering because he was always pushing too hard. When you take in the 30,000 foot view, it is not hard to see that most goal driven runners train too hard and recover too little because that's what they've been taught to do. In fact, my first response to him going in the tank was to think that he needed to be training harder, but then I came to my senses and made him pull back the reigns and he started to improve again late in the season, but by that point the dye was cast.
We shall see how this approach works for the track season.
I just looked up the Friel test. How TF is a 30-minute all-out race equal to someone's threshold HR? That's like 95% of my maximum HR and so far above threshold.
The Norwegian Singles info says 15k pace for the 3-4 minute reps. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
Because it's not a race. What you can motivate yourself / physically do in training, in most people, is always less than in a race, even more when you add in things like mini tapers.
I think the book recommends 96-98% of a friel test. For me, what I can manage using it, having done many, is take 98% of the last 20 mins and it's almost always exactly my LTHR from lab tests.
The only problem really with the friel test, is blowing up on the actual test and significant slow down. Other than that, I still think it's as good a field guide as you can find, short of lab testing.
I wouldn't worry about the paces. Don't fall into the trap of thinking of these paces in the context of a 15k/10 mile race. They are designed to manipulate time and effort, to create sub threshold training state. 10x3 mins so instance in training for me is relatively easy at 15k pace. Running that for more than 3 mins a time - even say if I tried to run 3 min reps for 6 mins - is relatively hard.
I just looked up the Friel test. How TF is a 30-minute all-out race equal to someone's threshold HR? That's like 95% of my maximum HR and so far above threshold.
The Norwegian Singles info says 15k pace for the 3-4 minute reps. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
Because it's not a race. What you can motivate yourself / physically do in training, in most people, is always less than in a race, even more when you add in things like mini tapers.
I think the book recommends 96-98% of a friel test. For me, what I can manage using it, having done many, is take 98% of the last 20 mins and it's almost always exactly my LTHR from lab tests.
The only problem really with the friel test, is blowing up on the actual test and significant slow down. Other than that, I still think it's as good a field guide as you can find, short of lab testing.
I wouldn't worry about the paces. Don't fall into the trap of thinking of these paces in the context of a 15k/10 mile race. They are designed to manipulate time and effort, to create sub threshold training state. 10x3 mins so instance in training for me is relatively easy at 15k pace. Running that for more than 3 mins a time - even say if I tried to run 3 min reps for 6 mins - is relatively hard.
It is a race effort though. Please don't act like you'll run that much slower alone. It will be seconds, not minutes. And your heart rate will be the same regardless if you're running alone or in an actual race.
My max HR is 190. Based on generic threshold percentages my threshold HR should be around 165. My sub-threshold pace is 1:00 per mile slower than my 30-minute time trial mile pace. They aren't in the same realm. I'm hitting 180HR in a Friel test minimum.
It is a race effort though. Please don't act like you'll run that much slower alone. It will be seconds, not minutes. And your heart rate will be the same regardless if you're running alone or in an actual race.
My max HR is 190. Based on generic threshold percentages my threshold HR should be around 165. My sub-threshold pace is 1:00 per mile slower than my 30-minute time trial mile pace. They aren't in the same realm. I'm hitting 180HR in a Friel test minimum.
I would always take the lower of the range. If your Max HR is 190, then 96% of 180 is 172 which seems entirely plausible for your LTHR.
I must be a head case because I ran my fastest 5k in 2025 in my 20 min Friel test, lol. Finally broke 18 if I go by the last 5k in the test. HR overall was a touch lower than a race. I was kind of frustrated I didn't do that time in an actual race.
I picked the flattest streets I could find though (still a net incline), & all the local 5ks have hills. Also helped I treated it like a pressure free time trial so pacing ended up near perfect & I didn't have to worry about focusing on so & so runner, or getting in a good position the first mile. Makes me want to create a local 5k on an actual good route with minimal turns.
It is a race effort though. Please don't act like you'll run that much slower alone. It will be seconds, not minutes. And your heart rate will be the same regardless if you're running alone or in an actual race.
My max HR is 190. Based on generic threshold percentages my threshold HR should be around 165. My sub-threshold pace is 1:00 per mile slower than my 30-minute time trial mile pace. They aren't in the same realm. I'm hitting 180HR in a Friel test minimum.
I'm not sure you really understand any of this. What do you mean 1:00 slower than 30 min race pace? Subthreshold "pace" is going to be totally different, dependent on if it's a straight 60 min run, a 30 min run, 15 min reps, 10 min reps, 5 min reps, 3 min reps, even as low as 60-90 seconds reps. Hell even Bakken 45/15s.
It is a race effort though. Please don't act like you'll run that much slower alone. It will be seconds, not minutes. And your heart rate will be the same regardless if you're running alone or in an actual race.
My max HR is 190. Based on generic threshold percentages my threshold HR should be around 165. My sub-threshold pace is 1:00 per mile slower than my 30-minute time trial mile pace. They aren't in the same realm. I'm hitting 180HR in a Friel test minimum.
I'm not sure you really understand any of this. What do you mean 1:00 slower than 30 min race pace? Subthreshold "pace" is going to be totally different, dependent on if it's a straight 60 min run, a 30 min run, 15 min reps, 10 min reps, 5 min reps, 3 min reps, even as low as 60-90 seconds reps. Hell even Bakken 45/15s.
500 pages, a book, Strava group and a sub Reddit and amazingly most people don't get it. The world has never had so much information yet has never been so dim
I'm not sure you really understand any of this. What do you mean 1:00 slower than 30 min race pace? Subthreshold "pace" is going to be totally different, dependent on if it's a straight 60 min run, a 30 min run, 15 min reps, 10 min reps, 5 min reps, 3 min reps, even as low as 60-90 seconds reps. Hell even Bakken 45/15s.
This is just dumb and uninformed, Threshold pace is threshold pace.12-15k pace NEVER going to be sub threshold for any amount of time.You guys are plain dumb.
I'm not sure you really understand any of this. What do you mean 1:00 slower than 30 min race pace? Subthreshold "pace" is going to be totally different, dependent on if it's a straight 60 min run, a 30 min run, 15 min reps, 10 min reps, 5 min reps, 3 min reps, even as low as 60-90 seconds reps. Hell even Bakken 45/15s.
500 pages, a book, Strava group and a sub Reddit and amazingly most people don't get it. The world has never had so much information yet has never been so dim
The helmet posts never end.
On another note, I wonder how frustrated Sirpoc must get when he see's another schmuck comment on his high cadence on Strava.
And your heart rate will be the same regardless if you're running alone or in an actual race.
You've never raced, have you?
He's right tho. Nobody is having a higher heart rate in a race vs solo time trial. Max effort is max effort. Your time will be faster in a race but you're not defying physiology and making your heart beat faster than possible just because you're racing.
The fastest pace NS prescribes, at least on >400-meter reps, is 15km race pace for the 3:00 reps. That's tremendously slower than a 30m max effort unless you're an Olympian. Or are we just not following paces anymore? I thought this was the NS method, not the Friel method.
I think we have to admit either the Friel test is way off or the paces given for NS is way off. They can't both be correct.