50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

lucKY2b wrote:

Let me just add that you really need to approach speed work with caution. Just my $0.02.

OMG welcome!

I'll add my $0.02: I agree with everything lucKY2b wrote in this reply to you.

The most common element of running injury is too abrupt a change in training. In your case, a change from M training to speed work - and a high % of masters distance runners injure themselves on the track. I ditto all lucKY noted on strength before speed plus add the speed work gradually. It will definitely work: strength, then speed added gradually, is the safest approach.

Enjoy the fun of learning what will work for you.

Best of luck to you

Am back from my trip to World Indoors (and work) and am very glad to have gone despite my poor time in the 1500m. Loved the 200m banked track. I got totally smoked as I expected (Not DFL though) and found inspiration from seeing these other M55 in fantastic shape. I have no doubt I can make the finals when Indoors will be in Budapest - 2013.

The positive is in 3 months I have dropped 16 pounds, improved my 1500m time by 50 seconds, feel great about being much closer to my potential in summer as I keep this going. Another 10 pounds and 50 seconds to go to position myself in just about any race. Trying to build more strength and encourage more speed from these legs over the next 2-3 months.

I did manage to work quite a bit in France and ran every morning along the Seine River in Rouen, very nice. During my Frankfurt layovers, managed some excellent runs in the forest south of the airport.

My streak did come to an end this week, 109 days and am very thrilled at how challenging it was. Thanks to many of you for cheering me on, especially Mike F and Muddy Girl. I am now on Day 2 after a 2 day break.

Have a great week!

lucKY2b wrote:

*footnote: I'm switching completely away from clunky trainers in favor of lightweight trainers that I'm now finding I can log miles in without problems (something my ligaments complained about a few years ago), but I still have miles to burn up with my current stock of clunkers, so I've been using them on recovery runs.

I've actually gone in the opposite direction recently. After years of running in more minimal shoes, I recently bought a pair of more traditional trainers. I am recovering from an Achilles issue and the higher heel restricts the ROM of the Achilles and associated calf muscles. There has been less soreness and quicker recovery. And I'm suddenly running faster! But I do look at this as a temporary situation and plan to work back to the lower heel in the not too distant future. Hopefully the Achilles will be healthy enough to accommodate that. And hopefully I won't slow down too much. :)

Olde Farte, I guess I should have specified what type of shoe I'm talking about. The shoes I've been rotating between for my road runs these days are Asics DS-trainer, NB 904/5, or Nike Lunar Elite. All have modest pronation control...something I'm still leery about trying to graduate from, and I'd hardly describe them as minimal. On the grass, I've been running in either Kinvaras or Adidas Manas. Track workouts (if I ever get there) will mostly be run in Manas, DS-racers (Banditos actually), or Fastwitches.

Also, nice job on those races mo'pak. Rtype, must feel good to get back under 6. Racerdb, helluva progression run! 1500Master, glad you made it back. I'm sure it was a great experience and great motivation.

Cheers!

That's a much better article, thanks. With the june_02 article I would quarrel, with this one I would only quibble. Farrell's training methods appear sound, but he is definitely not a scientist. It sounds like his pre-hiatus (1989-90) hard workouts were simply too hard? I'm a big fan of less is more, but calling hard-easy a myth is going a bit far. And this:

Simply not true. Read Noakes. Read anybody, actually. When I hurt my back on an easy run, it wasn't because I was lacking in cardio-pulmonary development. Funny that he quotes Jack Daniels, let me indirectly do the same.

--in George Sheehan, George Sheehan on Running to Win (1992), p.69

Well, I don't run quarters, and I only agonize at the end of a 5-K. In fact, I would say that I train more towards Farrell's end of the spectrum. :) But that doesn't mean I agree with what he writes.

Week 47: No running.Crosstraining:4x 30 minutes on the elliptical (1x more than last week).3x core/stretching.1 set 5 reps squat with bar only (almost killed me).1x 60 minutes hatha yoga (success!).Planned progression is: add stairs, add walking, add weights, work up to 12 hours per week of crosstraining, then transition to running. Hoping to return to the roads in 3-4 weeks. My two spring races would have been in 1 week and 2 weeks. I'll be a spectator.

Gary Levox said:

You know, I think a lot of times the hardest thing to do is to forgive yourself of past mistakes. The first step is admitting that you've made mistakes. It's OK to change, you know, no matter how many times you fall down you can always get back up.

--in Scott Simon interview of Rascal Flatts, NPR 2012.04.07

Only 34 miles this week. I felt like it was time to take an adaptation week and I didn't run the first three days of the week. On Saturday I did run a progressive 6 miles with one of my sons, who dragged me down to a sub-6 last mile on it. Other than my weekend runs with my sons, virtually all of my running this year has been in the 8:00 to 9:15 pace range. Off that I was able to run a 6:17 pace 5K race in March. My current philosophy on training should be considered in reference to the fact that I probably come from more towards the fast-twitch end of the running spectrum than most distance runners. I was a long sprinter in college (23s 220 and 51s 440) rather than a distance runner. For the first part of my masters running career from age 40 to my early 50s I trained a lot like a high school miler, with three interval workouts per week and modest mileage recovery days, mainly because I enjoyed that type of running rather than because I thought it was the optimal training method. A few years of chronic achilles problems forced me to stop the interval work. I have recovered from the achilles problems, but after age 60 I have found that recovery from high intensity work seems to take so long that total training volume is difficult to maintain, and the risk of injury is far higher for high intensity workouts. So, I have moved my training in the direction of the "Ed Whitlock style" of consistent higher mileage at moderate pace. Also, as I told my wife at breakfast this morning, I believe that the older you get, the more that durability becomes a major component of "talent". Being able to sustain a long uninterrupted block of training in your 60s puts you at a fitness level that simply is difficult to match by someone who has a number of injury interruptions in their training. Also, as Lydiard or some Lydiard adherent said, development of aerobic fitness at the cellular and cardiovascular level is a matter of months and years of work. Development of leg speed is a matter of weeks of work. That's my current .02 on training after age 60.

lucKY2b, I agree with the non-periodization concept. At this age, I am just trying to maintain my current level of fitness. I'd like to run an 8K in December at the same pace I ran one this March. I'm working very hard to convince myself that just consistently doing the same workouts is the way to go at this age.

Despite these sentiments, I had a very hard time convincing myself to not race a 5K on Saturday. My left hamstring was acting up more than usual. My rational side finally prevailed with the argument that a negative split 8 mile workout would put less stress on the hammy than my 5K target pace of 5:40. This was indeed the case. I then tried a hill workout on Sunday, but the hamstring did not feel solid as I started up the first one. I thus continued on to do 8 or so at a more reasonable pace. The hammy feels okay this afternoon.

The emotional legacy from my younger days is that I will somehow lose fitness and not be as prepared for a planned 10K next Sunday because I did not do a stronger workout today. I am working on replacing those type of negative (and illogical) thoughts with the aforementioned longer term view of consistency and maintenance.

M: 5 easy

T: 5 easy

W: 5 easy

T: 4 easy

F: 5 easy

S: 8 tempo, negative split miles (8:19, 7:30, 7:10, 6:50, 6:25, 6:28, 6:15, 6:07)

S: 8-9 easy (77 minutes)

Goal Race: Three Sisters Marathon, June 9th

Week of 04/15-04/21

Sun, 04/15: 16 miles in 1:57:42 (7:21/mile avg.)

Splits: 8:18, 7:39, 7:34, 7:32, 7:28, 7:24, 7:34, 7:38, 6:39, 6:53, 7:43 (?), 7:14, 7:10, 7:00, 6:52, 7:02

This was supposed to be an 18-mile run, but I couldn't remember my schedule. Hope those two miles don't ruin my marathon on June 9th! :-)

Mon, 04/16: usual day off running

Tue, 04/17: 2+ mile warmup, descending ladder with 400m jogs between everything, 2 mile cooldown

2000m (7:54), 1600m (6:14), 1200m (4:36), 1000m (3:50), 800m (2:57), 600m (2:12)

Day's total = ~10 miles

Wed, 04/18: 9 miles in 67:59 (7:33/mile avg.)

Thu, 04/19: 60 mins. on really hilly route. No Garmin so guessing between 7-8 miles.

Fri, 04/20: 15 min. warmup, 15 x 1:00 on/1:00 off, 15 min. cooldown on roads. Covered 8.06 miles in 61:15 (7:33/mile avg., 6:33/mile avg. during the 1:00 on/1:00 off segment)

Sat, 04/21: 6.5 miles easy (untimed) on Lacamas Heritage trail

Weekly total = 57 miles

Weights/core on Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri.

EIGHT WEEKS TO GO!

old guy II wrote:

Being able to sustain a long uninterrupted block of training in your 60s puts you at a fitness level that simply is difficult to match by someone who has a number of injury interruptions in their training.

old guy II posted my mantra, I'm working on it old guy! Recovery from medial meniscus surgery 2 weeks ago going well. I feel better now than I did before surgery. 5 hours yard work today, ... no problem but that was time to quit.

imarunr, good luck at Three Sisters. You're looking good 8 weeks out.

Down to 61 miles this week in 6 days. Took my first day off since Jan. 6 due to a very tight adductor. Easy the next couple of days and then a good half marathon yesterday.

Monday- 14.5 miles w/ 6X 2 Miles @ 14:55

Tuesday- 12, had to bag the planned 20 due to adductor

Wednesday- Off

Thursday- Easy 6.5

Friday- Easy 8

Saturday- Easy 5

Sunday- Gambler Half Marathon. 1:34:15, good effort with 30+ mph winds all morning. No problem with adductor.

Congratulations to my Team Nebraska mate David Adams on his 3:58.44 Glenn Cunningham Mile, third overall. Former mate Peter vd Westhuizen took the win in 3:56.90, A.J. Acosta 2nd in 3:57.08.

OMG- might be good to start easier with the drills and see if anything ends up being sore. The movements might be using muscles not normally stressed.

1500MASTER-You seem even more enthused with your running. I look forward to seeing the race fit 1500M, in the near future!

22 miles in 4 days;

Sun-5 miles ez

M-off

T-track, 2x1200 (4:22,4:23), 2x800 (2:45,2:51), 2x400 (76,75)

W-off

Th-4 miles slow

F-off

Sat- 2 mi in 13:21 and 4x50m hill strides.

Probably a touch too fast on the track for right now, but it was fun and comfortable.

Have a good week,

Rich

Skiing is over, last day was Tuesday. Could have gone a few more times but the trails were getting pretty rank.

So six days running (49 miles) and one day skiing (1 hr).

Got in a decent set of hill reps (6X 2 min) on Wednesday and threshold reps on the track on Friday:

800: 3:02 (40 sec recovery) then 1600s in 6:03, 5:57, 5:56 with 1:15 recovery.

First race (5K) in two weeks.

lucKY2b wrote:

Also, I did ask about intermittent fasting last week, but didn't get much response, so I'll just throw it back out there, and see if there are any more comments on that, too.

I've wanted to wait on my lab results before responding to your query lucKY. To recap, I'd been doing a variation of Nolan Shaheed's diet, by, essentially, on most days not eating but once per day. I don't have the willpower to fast as he does and I do bow to convention and eat, for instance, brunch with friends, or at other times when it would be a social faux pas to not eat. Given that, I've lost 17 pounds, went off my statin more than a month ago and I'm feeling great. My fear was my labs would be skewed and my stubborn cholesterol levels would not budge. The results were excellent!: HDL stayed high, LDL and total stayed low, and everything else was normal. My doc officially cleared me to stay off statins. I'm not stating for a moment that this would work for anyone else, we are all individuals and need to seek our own method of getting and staying lean. But I can't argue with the results: injuries have evaporated, times have dropped, and I'm off cholesterol drugs.

Rtype wrote:I'm not stating for a moment that this would work for anyone else, we are all individuals and need to seek our own method of getting and staying lean. But I can't argue with the results: injuries have evaporated, times have dropped, and I'm off cholesterol drugs.

Thanks, over50. Yeah, I definitely need some strength. I'm kinda "lean" (aka skinny). So why is it okay to call someone skinny, but NOT okay to call someone fat? Neither one is a compliment! But I digress .....

Hey, lucKY2b, I love my DS Trainers and my Kinvaras! I switch shoes a lot (pretty much daily) depending on how I feel. If I'm tired and need a little more support, I wear my clunkers. If I want to feel light and semi-speedy, it's more minimal. I was undecided tonight and wore some old slip on (elastic laces) Zoots. Kinda light but a little support. Soooo, I ran that 5K again. About 2/3 of it's on a dirt road. I ran 21:12 tonight, after a 21:25 2 weeks ago. I was shooting for 21:10, and ran watch-less, as my watch flickered and died this morning, so I guess that's okay.

*************************

Week 48

*************************

Salutations and such to all my fellow 50+ troupers. Just looking out on this grey morning as warmer gulf air is settling into the mid-south. We’re going to have a muggy week as it looks like we’ll flip the channel on what has been a remarkably cool April, which offset the record setting warm March. It’s been pretty weird weather so far this year, that’s for sure. Dodging thunderstorms might be the order of the day this week.

As for the week past, I logged 57.5 miles, including a few doubles. It’s my highest mileage (not by much) in over a year. After a down week, I would like to consistently get over 60 by next month.

My week's log looks as such:

Sun: 6.5 easy

Mon: 11 mostly easy (7 am, 4 pm)

Tue: 5 mostly on grass (2.42 hard in 15:33)

Wed: 8 w/4 somewhat hard

Thu: 12 (6.5 am w/2 miles of .2 on/.2 off, 5.5 pm easy)

Fri: 5 easy

Sat: 10 w/5k race in 18:03

Notes:

1) Tuesday's 2.42 mile hard effort on grass was only a 6:25 pace, but it was *really* hard. There was a pretty steady 30 mph wind that day.

2) Wednesday's run included 4 miles that were at an accelerated pace that averaged 6:34, with the last 1.4 at 6:22.

3) Thursday, I went to the indoor track and did one of the one lap on, one lap off workouts. The on’s were all close to 61s, while the off’s were all about 80-81s, so the overall time for the 3200m was 11:46.

4) I ran a lot of harder miles (for me, at any rate) this week, so it wasn't an ideal week to run a race...but I just felt I needed to get a race effort in. Ran the same time as the race three weeks previous during a down week; I was hoping to dip into the 17's, but I’ll take it. I ran much more even splits.

Overall, I think it was a pretty solid week. I didn’t mention that a lot of the easy miles were logged with a 5-10 lb backpack, as well, as I tacked on a lot of the mileage running either to or home from work. My legs are feeling a bit tired this morning after 3 straight weeks of 53-57 miles, so I plan to take it down a notch this coming week. I’m hoping that this month, I’ll have time to cautiously get some speed work in before the summer teaching schedule picks up. Hopefully drop a few pounds, too, to get ready for the 4th of July 10K; the race that got scuttled by last summer’s knee debacle. Of course, the main plan is to stay healthy!

On that note:

Alan, hope that your rehab is going well. Like most here, I can surely sympathize.

OMG, I thought that you said you have absolutely no speed. 21:12 5k is a darn good time for a 50+ woman; certainly nothing embarrassing there! (Not that there ever is….but still) A little strength and speed work will put you in pretty rarified company!

I’m stoked to see how our transplanted Kentuckian, Kevin Castille, does in today’s 5000m race at Payton Jordan. The American Masters record is currently 14:17…which should easily go down, question is can he reach the world record of 13:43. From his Stanford Invite time, I would project 13:51….very exciting!

OK, hope you all are having a great week! Racing, running, or recovering--let us know how you’re doing!

My bad for not checking masterstrack.com this weekend. Kudos to Mike Blackmore for his new AR in the 5000m: 15:16.77 is smokin'! Bravo!

http://masterstrack.com/2012/04/22221/

Great to be a runner here in Oregon.

Kicked it off with a wonderful event celebrating the life of my friend Geoff Hollister. Followed by second son's PR in the 800 in 2:02. Another PR by daughter in the youth 1500 in 6:28. Another PR by eldest son in the 5000 in 15:42. PR in the 800 in 2;12 by one of the girls I help coach in high school. Topped off by my BAC teammates Mike Blackmore in the new AR in M50 5000 in 15:16.

I am inspired to stay on course of patient strength work so i too can toe the line.

KP